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I'm not sure what type of turning spur to get for my Homier 7X12 metal lathe... I checked the archives to no avail. I would like to use a wood turning spur with a live center to turn wooden blanks for reel seat fillers.  I have a live center for metal, which seems like it will work fine with wood.  I'm just not sure what to get for the spur, or where to get it.  Grizzly has some wood turning spurs on morse tapers, but I'm not sure if they can be chucked up in the 3 jaw chuck.  (Kyle Druey)

Try www.woodcraft.com they have  spurs that fit by morse taper into your headstock.  I have  2 different sizes.  They are about 15-20 a piece. The live center you have should be fine if it fits your tailstock.  (Randall Gregory)

Make a mandrel out of all-thread that you can chuck in the 3 jaw chuck at one end, and countersink the other end so you can use the live center. Bore the blank first, then put it on the mandrel and turn it, that way the outer diameter will be concentric to the hole thru the middle.  (John Channer)

The morse taper can not be chucked in a three jaw chuck,. To use it you have to remove the chuck from the face plate. I have a spur from Sears that has a 3/4" thread, I think it is 3/4 X 18 or 16. I bought a short 3/4 bolt to fit the thread and turned off the head. This gives me a round to use in the three jaw chuck. I would be glad to send you a photo. The live center you have is just fine for what you want to do.

As John said, you really don't need a spur to make an insert.

I also use a length of 3/8" rod threaded on each end with a counter sunk hole. The rod (arbor) is removed from the lathe and is used with the insert in the Router setup for the mortise.  (Tony Spezio)

I'm not very familiar with your lathe, but if the tail stock has a #2 MT for your live center I would guess that the head stock (with the chuck removed) will have a #2 MT or a #3 MT for the spur center. The booklet that came with your lathe probably says what bore the head stock has.  (Don Greife)

The Homier is a MT 3 Taper head stock.  (Tony Spezio)

I thought I'd throw this out there. I just use a 3/4" Forstner bit in my 3-jaw for a turning spur and a live center in my tailstock. Works great. I turn it to .100 over size, bore it out and finish it on a mandrel John and Tony describe.  (Eamon Lee)

I went to Mike Shay's shop today and was shooting the breeze with him. I told him about one of the accessories I have for my mini lathe that I thought I would share with the list. Some of you guys who bought a Grizzly may already have one. The part I am talking about is a steady rest. I picked one up from Little Machine Shop.

To turn a cork handle just mount the butt in the chuck. Make a bushing from cork and mount it in the steady rest. Wrap tape on the rod and insert it into the steady rest. Presto you can turn with plenty of room.  (Adam Vigil)

P.S.- if a lathe can not turn a cork handle it definitely will have trouble with ferrule making. Just thought you ought to know.

Another important accessory if you're making ferrules or reel seats: a follower rest.  It reduces deflection of the workpiece opposite cutting tools.  (George Bourke)

Cork creates a lot of heat.  Have you ever had a problem with the cork melting the tape or messing anything up? 

What about mounting a round bearing (like the kind used in skate wheels, doughnut shaped with a sealed bearing race between the inside and outside layers) in the steady rest?  That could be used and wedged up onto a layer of tape on the rod.  Might create less friction.  That is what I used to do to support graphite rods when I shaped the cork on the blank.  The butt end I would chuck into a variable speed motor and hold the bearing with my hand.  Presto, one sided lathe.  (Jason Swan)

Does anyone have the URL for the Mini Lathe TS adjuster mod. It's the modification that has a bracket on the back side of the TS consisting of a "U" shaped bracket and a nut that will push/pull the TS front to back. If you do, please sent it to me.  (Don Schneider)

Try here.  (Darryl Hayashida)

If you are a little tight on room, and only want to do small projects such as cutting the slot in the metal for mortise screw lock seats. You might take a look at the milling attachment for the mini lathe. Actually its pretty versatile, and a lot cheaper. They have them at Little Machine Shop, or you might check eBay that’s where I got mine. At a savings of course.  (Floyd Burkett)

I need help, finding something a bit back I was looking for a expanding arbor  for Gary Dabrowski's nickel silver drawn cups for nickel silver reel seat parts a gentleman emailed me with a collet arbor that his company sold that he used well I lost the email and am looking again so I can purchase one if I can find it again or anyone that knows the web site I would appreciate it much.  (Jeff Van Zandt)

I have several Trantorque bushings that will do the job of holding reel seat rings & end caps.  They fit on a 1/4" shaft in the lathe & will hold a 5/8" ring.  If I need it to hold something a little larger than 5/8" I use a thin split adapter.  (Ron Larsen)

How far out do you place a support (to keep the tip from exploding) on your rod section when turning on a  Mini Metal Lathe.  I plan to have a support with either a bearing or cork ring bored a bit oversized with tape wrapped on the rod section to protect it.  I would think that about the two thirds mark on the section should work but I’d like to hear from someone who has done this to be sure.  I would think the tip section would be the most critical section.  Also I was going to turn it slow as possible and use sandpaper to fit the ferrule station, am I on the right track?  (Mike Monsos)

I made a small plug out of aluminum to go in the back end of the spindle (this helps a bit), and then based on the length of the section, either put a support in the middle, and a support at the end, or just a support at the end.  If the section is straight, you should be OK.  As to turning down the station, I use a cutter as normal, and then sandpaper for the very last bit.  Using a cutter gives you more control and ensures accuracy along the length of the station.  (Louis DeVos)

What type of cutter do you use on the bamboo(on your metal lathe).  I have some HSS ground for smoothing(rounded tip) and some for more detailed work(point style grind).  About how much should I try to take off per pass, .020, .010?  The spindle plug is a good idea to keep things from wobbling.  I’ll look into doing that too.  (Mike Monsos)

I use the round nose, and take light cuts.  It's easy to take off more, but it's hard to put it back.  Also, remember if your lathe is like mine with .001" divisions, one division is taking off .002" from the station.  I hold my finger on the side away from the cutter to keep the cane from bending although a ball bearing follower rest would be more accurate.  (Neil Savage)

Mike, using a lathe bit didn't work well for me.  But that doesn't mean it won't work if done correctly.  I just don't know how to do it without tearing something up.  Tear out could be a problem with too deep a cut.  It can be a little difficult to hide a half inch splinter in an apex.  Set the cutter height too low and you might shred the end of the rod.  Sandpaper wasn't any fun either.  I had trouble getting a consistent diameter with sandpaper.  I use a file clamped to the tool post to cut ferrule stations on a lathe.  It's simple as dirt and works perfectly.

I use homemade wooden stands to support the rod section wherever it needs it to stop the vibrations, like Darryl described.  The rod section lays in an open V cut in a board.  I put masking tape in the V to protect the blank when turning.  Do not use felt or any other fabric in the V that has loose thread.  I learned that the hard way.  If the blank picks up the thread it can wind around the blank and snap a tip in about two seconds.  (David Bolin)

That is a great idea.  I’ve been on your blog spot and it’s great but I had not seen this particular page.  I think your approach looks to be the best way to go to guard against tear out(Scares me to think of trashing a section).  I’m going to give it a try in a week or so.  I’ll let you know how it went.  (Mike Monsos)

For turning ferrule stations, get yourself on Dave LeClair's waiting list for his ferrule station cutters.  Trust me, once you use these, you'll never go back to trying to turn the ferrule station the old ways.

No financial interest, I'm just an enthused owner of a set of Dave's cutters.  He also helped me out a ton when I first started turning my  own  ferrules.   Even  though  we've  never  met face-to-face, I'd like to think I can call him my friend.  (Mark Wendt)

FWIW, mine is about 18" from the outboard end of the lathe head, and 25" from the cutter.   (Neil Savage)

You needn't get too critical with the hole you use for a support, as long as it's smooth inside and you put a light wrap of masking tape around the rod so its leading edge trails away from the contact point when the lathe turns. I put my Unimat on a box I built for it and mounted one support at the end of the box. That's probably about 10 -12" behind the headstock and then I fashioned another to sort of "free stand" wherever it looks helpful out toward the end of the section. I happened to have a couple of ball bearings with about 3/8" holes and so I put them inside the holes in my 3/4" pine supports, but I still wrap the cane, as I'm afraid that the spinning might "burnish" the corners of the cane.

BTW, I wouldn't discount the danger to the butt section, as there's a relative lot of mass spinning out there while you're working on the ferrule station!  (Art Port)

Wanting to turn a ferrule station and not go to a lot of elaborate trouble one day, I discovered that if I just cradled the protruding end of the section in the remote V stand of my wrapping set up - it worked fine.  I found that if one just dampens the oscillations slightly it prevents the section from "going propeller."  The felt on the wrapping stand is enough to protect the finish. (Darrol Groth)

You should also look at Dave LeClair’s ferrule cutters. I have used the old ones for about 10 years and they make it pretty simple. I tape the shoulder so it will not splinter and do a razor cut on the corners. A little light sanding at the end for nice centered cuts.  (Gordon Koppin)

Does anyone have a source for endless flat belts for lathes?  I know there is a guy in the UK who sells custom length synthetic belts, scarfed, with a bottle of adhesive, but I could not find anything similar here.  I would rather not use the alligator clips if possible.

Has anyone ever seen any sort of "link" system that would work on a flat belt driven lathe?

Last year I took a piece of leather, scarfed it myself and used contact cement.  That worked for quite some time but does not seem to be holding up very well.   (Matt Fuller)

Try Logan Lathes.  They can make up whatever belt you may need.

Also check this out.  (Dave LeClair)

Does anyone on the list ever use the upright milling attachment sold for the mini lathes? Are the worth buying? What are they good for?  (Dick Steinbach)

I've had one for several years and found it to be very helpful with various projects. To me, its uses are only limited by your imagination.

I've used it to make real seat hardware, cut grooves, T slots, drill precision holes, surface cutting. Its not heavy duty enough to replace a mill but a handy tool never the less.  (Don Schneider)

I have one too.  As Don said, it is handy for small jobs.  (Scott Grady)

That sounds very interesting.

I too have had one for several years; I thought it would prove to be a useful tool for cutting mortises for reel seats but the jigs I made proved to work well most of the time but high quality work was not consistent. Each type of wood worked differently. The problem was mostly a slight movement of the rig, By the way, I hate that  three screw clamping system; a real vise would have been better.

If either of you could send me some pictures of your reel seat projects set ups I would be very appreciative.  (Dick Steinbach)

I bought a mill-drill and use the old milling attachment to raise and lower the router in my beveler.  (Grayson Davis)

What's everyone using out there as a steady rest to keep your rod sections in alignment during lapping and cutting of the ferrule stations on your lathe?  (Scott Bahn)

I use a block of foam clamped at the bottom between a couple of 2x4's with large c-clamps. (Timothy Troester)

I use a little wooden thingy with a hole drilled through it.  Glued a little cork thingy inside the hole.  (Brian Morrow)

I made my steady rest from some scrap wood.

I used a 1" X 4" X 11" , placed it on a 1" X 6" X 7-1/2" base and used a 2" X 4" cut into a triangle block that is used to brace the 1X4 for vertical. I centered and drilled a 3/8" hole, (rounding and smoothing the holes cut edges), into the 1X4 at the same height as center of chuck - from work bench - about 9".

I've never had a problem.  (Doug Alexander)

I use a steady rest bought from Dale Clemens more years ago than I care to remember.  Wide heavy metal base, dual post, two offset free wheels on the bottom cross, one on the top, vertically adjustable.  A lot like the steady rests you can buy from Grizzly and elsewhere, but more homemade looking.  Be pretty easy to make something similar, even using weighted wood for the base and cross members, put O-rings on cabinet wheels for softer contact, etc.  (Bob Brockett)

Cardboard carton with holes cut in opposite sides.Easy to replace or modify for special needs.

Absolutely no risk of ever getting stolen or borrowed!  (Peter McKean)

Like Peter says - I used a cardboard box for years. A hand full of 44 caliber lead balls in the bottom keeps it steady. After about 125 rods, I had to turn it 90 degrees and cut some new holes. The corrugated paper is "soft" on rods.

Did watch a rod wrapped with masking tape blow up though. Gotta wrap the tape the right way. Do it wrong, the tape unwinds just enough to grab "something" and there ya' go splinters.  (Don Anderson)

Gotta wrap the tape the right way. Do it wrong, the tape unwinds just enough to grab "something" and there ya' go splinters.

I mount the rod in the lathe and wind on the tape by turning the chuck manually in the direction it turns under power. That way there is no chance of getting the tape wound on the wrong way.  (Steve Dugmore)

I have a support made to the same height as the spindle.  I put a bearing in the hole and tape up the rod section when I turn ferrule stations and grips.  (Scott Grady)

That's how I do it.  I fastened 2 pieces of 1x3 in an L shape, bored a hole at the center line of the spindle and lined it with a low quality cork ring.  I wrap tape around the rod in the direction of rotation so it doesn't catch and unwrap.  (Neil Savage)

This may not appeal to anyone but I use my left hand to steady the section..  (Tony Spezio)

Free hand!  Now that's keeping things simple!  I might've guessed you'd say that.  But with the way I fumble and stumble around, I'd need to be an octopus to pull that off.  (Bob Brockett)

A small diameter PVC tube  (just a little bigger than the rod piece) with the length of the rod piece. Put into the spindle at one end, the rod piece wrapped around with tape and the tube supported at the other end works fine for me.  (Christian Meinke)

I use a support that's made from an IV pole.  It has an adjustable clamp that is lined with felt that is set at the same height as the work piece.  I use my left hand to keep it all steady. The wheels on the stand let me roll it into place as needed. (Greg Kuntz)

NOW! FINALLY! I can justify those IV poles I stuck in the shed 12 years ago!  (Timothy Troester)

The hollow shaft for my lathe is long enough to steady the blanks.  I do have a piece of cork set in the hole of the shaft where the cane exits.  I add tape to the shaft to fill this hole to keep it running true.  I hope that made sense.  (Bret Reiter)

I took a 3" x 7" x! 1" board drilled a hole in it and placed a cork ring in it. I hold the board in a drill press vise and position it to keep things straight. Similar to the picture in The Lovely Reed.  (Bob Ratcheson)

Even though I bought a Sherline lathe for the primary purpose of producing concentric fly rod grips, I have to admire your ingenuity AND your introducing me to the ball end!  I know I'll find a use for that somewhere along the line!  It's simpler than the cane toaster, but I have to admire your style!!  (Steve Yasgur)

I have a jig that works for me.   I have a 1x4 about 36' long.  Routed out a slot in the center.  Made a L shaped piece from 1 x 4 and drilled a hole in the short side.  In line with the headstock center I drilled a large hole and lined it with cork  the L shaped spice is mounted on the long piece with a bolt and wing nut. so that it can be moved to and from the headstock.  I actually have two L shaped pieces to avoid  and unevenness in the spinning rod.  The longer piece I clamp to the headstock with a small c clamp.  I now have an adjustable steady rest ranging from 4' to about 30'  I usually tape the rod at the points where it bears..  I have also made a L shaped jig that clamps to the ways of the lathe so that I can turn even an assembled rod.  I hope that this is clear.  (Ralph Moon)

When I'm doing those operations, I just keep the end sticking out of the lathe chuck as short as possible.  Since I use Dave LeClair's cutters, I don't worry about the rod section bending while cutting, and if you keep the section sticking our short enough, the amount of pressure you put on the ferrule while filing/lapping is pretty minimal.  It would be pretty difficult to get a steady rest to work on a six-sided rod section without wearing off the apexes.  (Mark Wendt)

I use an inverted 'T' of wood.  There is a 0.5" hole drilled though the vertical of the T at the height of the lathe center. The horizontal arm of the inverted T gets clamped to the workbench after aligning the hole in the vertical with the central bore of the lathe - by sighting through them. I wrap the  part of  the rod  section that  will be  in contact with the 0.5" hole in a few layers of masking tape first.  No problem with apexes wearing down.  (Steve Dugmore)

My goof, I thought Scott was talking about a steady rest that usually sits on the ways of the lathe, used on parts that are being machined that can't normally be put on a center.  (Mark Wendt)

I use the support  extension from my ego wrapper. (George Wood)

Does any one out there have any experience (good or bad) with buying lathe chucks off of eBay?  I have a Harbor freight 7 x 12 and want to get a bigger chuck that has a larger diameter through the middle and I have located a couple 3 and 4 jaw chucks that look to be a good fit at a reasonable price; half what they sell for at other sites I have seen.  (Scott Bahn)

I bought a three jaw four inch chuck on eBay (made in China) a few years back for a Cummins 7 X 12. I then purchased the adapter at Little Machine Shop. It ran about three thousands off (checked with a reamer shank) so I bought a second adapter from Little Machine Shop thinking that might be the problem. It wasn't, and after some research I came to the conclusion that it needed to be trued to the lathe. I made a mount for a Dremel to set on the tool post, and with the chuck spinning opened at a fairly fast rate used a small stone in the Dremel to recut the jaws. Got it to between a half and one thousands and called that good. I believe I got the ideal for the truing from Mini-Lathe.com.

The whole reason for going through that is I had 3/4 inch nickel silver that wouldn't go through the three inch chuck, and I didn't want to waste any of it. The larger chuck allowed it to go through the headstock on the lathe. Would I do it again, absolutely. If I remember right the eBay chuck was about half the price of Little Machine Shop, and I figured it was probably the same chuck made in China. The three thousands off didn't make much difference for making reel seats, but was a bit much when making ferrules.  (Floyd Burkett)

That's exactly the reason why I want a bigger hole through the chuck.  I see new ones out there that are half the price as the Little Machine Shop ones and my lathe was build in China, so I'm guessing most of the chucks these days are also.  The hole in the 3-jaw chuck that I got with my lathe is not 3/4" like the hole through the spindle.  The one I have looked at is actually .87 and would be perfect.  (Scott Bahn)

Several years ago I went through my Mini Late while installing all of the improvements. I found the 3" chuck that came with my late was off about the same amount as yours. Thinking I couldn't live with that and nothing to lose I trued the chuck and at the same time opened the bore so that 3/4" stock would pass through. The boring came real close to three screws on the back of the chuck, mater of fact it touched the heads of the screws. Like I said, I was going to replace the chuck anyway and had nothing to lose. Worked fine, still does. By doing this I also gained a small amount of distance between centers over using a 4" 3 jaw.  (Don Schneider)

Get a four jaw chuck.  Three jaw chucks are inherently inaccurate.  I never try to turn work pieces here I'm looking for precision in a three jaw.  Bolt on the four jaw, dial in the work piece to dead nuts, and have at it.  Grinding the jaws only makes them "accurate" at the opening diameter you ground them at.  Anything other diameter piece, and they are the same old, un-precise jaws.  (Mark Wendt)

As long as you don't have to re position your turned piece, won't the lathe turn down the piece round??   (David Dziadosz)

There are better machine minds than mine on the list, but I believe that a piece that is not centered will be turned oval, not round.  If the tail stock is dead center, you should end up with an interesting piece.  The more you are off center, the greater the "not round" effect.

At least, this makes sense to me.  (Greg Dawson)

Anything turned while held in an off center chuck will end up round.  It just won't be concentric with the chuck axis.  To turn an oval you would have to alter the center offset during each revolution.  There are special chucks and whole lathes designed to do this kind of turning but I can't think of what they are called right now.

If the chuck is off center but the tail stock is dead on you end up with a taper.  (Rick Hodges)

They have to be a pretty big lathe, but are the engine lathes designed to off set the work piece? Like when turning the rod journals on a crankshaft? (David Dziadosz)

My experiences are limited to wood turning; but, for the most part, metal turning is no different except for the materials and the speeds at which turning is done. The  'physics' is  the same.  If either  end is off-center you will get a tapered elliptical spindle, with the ellipse being more pronounced at the end that is off center. If the stock is long enough, and you can turn close enough to the end of the stock at that  end,  it  might   actually   be   round   at   the 'on-center' end; otherwise, it will be elliptical. A full length elliptical turning is attained by centering both ends off-center by the same amount along a single axis. Chuck up a piece of wood and check it out!

Some years ago a French wood turner by the name of Esculen developed an eccentric chuck that permits changing the centerline more than once on a single turning, creating some really bizarre configurations. Have not heard of a similar chuck for metal turning, but don't follow metal turning innovations either.  (Frank Schlicht)

You are certainly right in your description but I think we are really talking about two different things entirely.  I have been referring to the initial subject of inaccurate chucks and assumed the material is held in the chuck and rotates about the lathe axis. 

Forgetting about the tail stock for a moment If you chuck up a piece of 2" diameter round bar in a 4 jaw chuck and then offset it 1/2"  then turn the end down to 1" diameter, you will get a round 1" diameter stub that is offset from the center axis of the 2" bar.   Since you are still turning relative to the true lathe axis it will be truly round.

Now if you set up that 2" round bar between true centers and then offset the tail stock 1/2" you can turn a tapered shaft 2" diameter at the headstock and 1" diameter at the tail stock.  This is a standard method for producing taper shanks such as the morse taper.  It will not be oval anywhere.

Offsetting the headstock however is another matter.  If you can have an arrangement where the drive center on the headstock is actually offset from the lathe axis causing it to rotate in a circle itself, then you can cause the material being cut to rotate in a circle or cone and all kinds of wonderful shapes can result.  For the example where both the head and tail stock are offset equally thus producing a full length oval, I think the tail stock would also have to rotate in sync with the headstock.  In any case the shapes thus produced are not true ellipses but approximations.  Below is link that describes chucks and lathes for true elliptical turning if anyone is interested.

Anyway, thanks all for making me think a bit about all this. (Rick Hodges)

Thanks Rick, that's an interesting link!

Another example of offset turning is when they turn down the rod journals on a crankshaft. The center line of the crank is offset so the rod journal turns with the center line of the spindle. (David Dziadosz)

If your spindle is running true, and your chuck jaws are off, won't your cutting bit cut true with the spindle?? You cannot re-chuck or reposition your trued piece. (David Dziadosz)

OK I had to try it! I chucked up a round rod and shimmed one jaw till I had about 0.030" TIR. Turned the piece till it cut all the way around the rod. Checked with a dial indicator and guess what? TIR was less than 0.001". I did it in a hurry and could have gotten better (maybe), but I think that's close enough for my Grizz 9X19!

People turn ferrules from bar stock using a three jaw chuck all the time and three jaw chucks usually have a TIR of about 0.003"-0.006". Any less TIR is a darn good chuck!! If a three jaw chuck is off much more than that, when you flip the female ferrule to drill the other end, you might get a bit of a dog leg when the rod is joined at the ferrule. You might not even notice it!

When people say they have 0.000000005" TIR at the chuck, are they measuring the chuck body or a round piece in the chuck, before or after turning the piece??? (David Dziadosz)

When I bought the Grizz 9X19, right out of the box, I checked the TIR at the chuck. I even checked the spindle and had the same thing. I marked a spot on both the chuck and spindle. I zeroed a dial indicator at zero. I was off pretty bad, but the crazy thing was, when I came back to my mark, it was a few thousandths off! Another revolution and still a different reading! After several revolutions it might come back to zero on the dial indicator! At first I thought it was the chuck, but I had the same thing at the spindle. When I talked to Grizzly they thought I was NUTS!! Well, I am, but what can I say, I'm a rod maker and I have TOO many lathes! LOL! They sent me a new set of spindle bearings, to shut me up! They brought the spindle TIR to darn near zero! (David Dziadosz)

I'm trying to measure run-out on a tiny little collet chuck.  To do so I need to gauge right at the chuck and also about 1.5" beyond the chuck.  Every piece of drill rod I check has enough bend in it to throw the measurements off.  The same is true for actual drill bits.  I tried using 1/4" dowel pins, but they are too short.  What I'm looking for is something about 1/4" in diameter that's approx. 3" long, and truly straight.  I know I could order some gauge pins, but thought some of you might have a good idea about something I could find locally.  (Harry Boyd)

I don't know what you could use that would be truly straight but a little math could solve the problem using the drill rod you have.

1. chuck up your test piece and find and mark the point of maximum indicator reading.  Record this reading and readings at 90 degree rotation intervals.

2. Loosen the chuck, rotate the test piece 90 degrees, tighten the chuck, and repeat the readings.

3.  You can now subtract out the error due to a bent piece and the residual should be the chuck run out.

The idea here is that the error due to the bend will change position relative to the chuck while the chuck run out error will remain in the same quadrant.

As a double check you could repeat the process but this time hold the piece in the same position then loosen and rotate the chuck (spindle) 90 degrees and retighten.  If it is chuck run out, the error should move to a different quadrant of the test piece.

I hope this at least gives you another way to think about the problem.  (Rick Hodges)

I talked with my bro-in law who has been a Tool maker for eons and he reminded me of something I should've thought of myself.

Tim said to get yourself a "drill blank"! They are centerless ground, harder than heck, as straight as anything, can be had in a supply house individually and are relatively inexpensive.

This, coming from a precision toolmaker who has drilled holes as small as "0.003 diameter and still has a few drill bits in hand in case anyone calls him a B.S.'er! He's done lots of precision stuff on the grinders for the military contracts so I'll have to say I trust his word Harry.  (Jeremy Gubbins)