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I make a lot of my own reel seats and they are machined in a metal lathe, not cast, however, you can buy hardware ready to go from almost any rodmakers supply house.  Golden Witch, Anglers Workshop, Bob Venneri, Al Bellinger, Struble, etc.  Most of these you can find links for on the rodmakers site.  (Bob Nunley)

I make my hardware from bar stock that I bought from Busby Metal.  I looked for tubing but all I found was more expensive than the bar.  I cut to length for the part (eg. threaded barrel) and bore to the desired I.D.  J&L, Enco, etc have expandable mandrels near the size.  These can be machined to the desired size (I use .61").  I made a split brass sleeve to go over the mandrel that I use for the slip ring and end.  It allows me to use the mandrel with the I.D. of the rings ~ 3/4". The screw I thread to fit the threaded barrel.  I made a freehand rest to bolt onto the swivel on my lathe and use hand tools (look up "gravers" on the Sherline web page).  I also made a wooden handle for my knurling tool so I could put a knurl on a rounded surface.

For the inserts, I use a Dremel with a router bit and a trim router with a straight bit and a fingernail bit.  I put a spur in my lathe headstock and mount the blank between the spur and the tailstock center.  I mount the Dremel (via a flexible shaft) to the toolpost and use the router bit (with Dremel running) as the lathe bit and turn down about 3/4" of one end of the blank so that it is round (for a 1" square blank, this would be just under 1").  I then mount the blank in the three jaw chuck using the part I turned down.  Or you can mount the unturned blank in a four jaw chuck.  Anyway, the next step is to drill a hole lengthwise through the blank.  For the actual turning of the blank, I made a holder from 1/2" round aluminum rod.  This is two pieces of rod with one end of each piece turned down to the diameter of the hole you drilled in the blank with a turned area of ~2" long.  The length of the rods are about 4" in my case.  One of these is "dimpled" on the opposite end from the turned end so it will center on the tailstock center.  The length of the "tool, arbor or whatever it's called) is long enough so I can maneuver my trim router the length of the block without running into either the tailstock or chuck.  I mount my trim router on the toolpost using a milling attachment  (see  Varmint Al's web page for the cheapie).  Now all I have to do is set the trim router with the straight bit to the depth of cut, turn both lathe and router on and let the power drive run the router down the blank.  I make a second cut for the step-down for the threaded barrel and a third for the under cork end of my uplocking reel seat.  When I have these like I want them, I replace the straight bit with a fingernail bit and with the lathe OFF,  I center the blank and cut the mortise.  All that is left is to finish sand and paint the finish on.  (Onis Cogburn)

All the talk of ultra light reel seats got me thinking (always dangerous), and I got some light wall stainless tubing with a .695 ID. I would like to cut it with my lathe, which will accept the tube through the headstock. My question is what sort of cutoff tool and speeds would be best, and should I use a wood mandrel or something similar?  Or, is the lathe not the best way to approach this?  (Tom Smithwick)

Why not simply mount the tubing on a dowel wrapped with masking tape to the appropriate diameter, and run the whole deal right through your band saw?   Use an old blade.  (Bill Harms)

I tried cutting NS tubing on my lathe and all it did was to squish (my technical term) the tubing walls with the jaws of the vise.  I am sure it can be done, but I decided to go with solid bar instead.  (Rob Clarke)

How thick is the wall? How about trying a tubing cutter?  (Tom Ausfeld)

I use a split bushing to grip the tubing OD.   Bore a hole the same diameter as the tubing OD in a piece of round bar.  Slit one side with a hack saw.  This will clamp the tubing all around its perimeter rather than just at the three jaw points.  (Ted Knott)

I have a hard time parting in the traditional way with my mini lathe. For parting small stock, I mounted a piece of key stock on my Dremel tool and put the key stock into the tool holder, making a poor (but not fussy) man's tool post grinder.  Dremel makes a thin blade cutoff wheel that does a good job on small diameter NS tube.

That worked well for me, but no way would it cut reel seat size stock, so this AM I tried to make a similar adaptation to my angle grinder.  I expect to try it out tomorrow.  (Grayson Davis)

I'm thinking about butt caps as I read through books about metal working.  On paper, it seems to me that spinning should be the best way for a fellow with a 7X10 lathe to make a butt cap from NS.  Last week, I didn't know what spinning was, so for others with similar backgrounds ...

In spinning, you mount two wooden forms to the head and tailstock of the lathe, squeeze a circular sheet of metal between them, start the lathe, take a modified hammer handle and mash the sheet onto one of the forms. You do not need to thin the metal down (that would be shear spinning), just bend it onto the form, giving it that shape.  When you are done, the piece slides off the form.  Tooling and materials are cheap, you can practice with brass shim stock, and (on paper) it's easy (seems that I've heard that before) to do even with surprisingly thick stock (up to 1"!?).  No doubt, it is important to keep your head out of line with that spinning sheet until it's cupped onto the form. 

Has anyone on the list done this sort of thing?  Is it possible to make a butt cap this way with a light lathe?  Does it take tremendous pressure to keep that sheet in place?  If that sheet flies out of the forms is it the Frisbee of death?  (Grayson Davis)

If it of interest, Gary Dabrowski makes drawn butt caps of NS and aluminum. He makes them in 3 sizes. They are 'blanks' - not machined and are ready for you to turn them into whatever you want. They work slick and are inexpensive. (AJ Thramer)

I have kept an old copy Nunley's article on making caps and rings (Power Fibers). I have read it over and over, done a number of other projects on the lathe and I think I finally understand the article fully. I have NS tubing od = .750 , ID .56. I don't think that I can make any caps or rings as well as winding checks with the tube, right ? Where does one get the solid NS pictured in the article? What is the outside diameter of the NS solid that is used for caps and rings?  (Rich McGaughey)

I buy all of my NS stock from Metal Mart. They'll sell any quantity you want.  I think its www.metalmart.com, but don't have to use their web site, as they've opened a store 25 miles from here now... Geez, we're finally coming out of the stone age in Oklahoma! *S*  (Bob Nunley)

Thanks Bob, but what is the outside diameter of the NS solid that is used for caps and rings? I see Metalmart.com has the following sizes  3/32, 1/8, 5/32, 3/16, 7/32 ,1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 1/2 which do you use ?  (Rich McGaughey)

Bob is right - metalmart.com is the place for NS solid rounds. There are two nice things about metalmart - first, they will cut the solid rounds for you in lengths that are manageable. I often order 3 inch pieces that fit in my little lathe. The second thing is that they sell 792 rod, which will not turn yellow as it oxidizes.

But here is one solution to your question.

I use two sizes of tubing:

    small    .650 ID    .720 OD
    large    .687 ID    .750 OD

The small tubing forms the tube portion of the reel seat cap and fits on a .650 diameter reel seat spacer. The large diameter tubing is used for the slide band, which has to be just a bit larger than the diameter of the reel seat spacer to slide easily and not trash the finish.

I order 3/4 inch diameter NS rod for the end cap, and the cork check (hosel). You would probably want some 1/2 inch rods for winding checks.

Some rodmakers use one size tubing, and swage the slide band to get a slight size increase. I never figured out how to do this and still get the band off  the swaging fixture without boogering it up. So I went with larger tubing for the slide band (if anyone has a contraption for swaging I would love to see it).

Golden witch used to sell both sizes of tubing, but they may be out of stock on the small stuff, and I don't know who carries it. I have been talking with some folks about trying to put together a group order.  (Jeff Schaeffer)

I have looked at the metalmart pricing and the alloy that they sell. It is the same alloy I sell (12% nickel silver). This alloy will yellow in time . The alloy that will not yellow in time is 752 This is 18%. I do not know of any body that sells 18% in rod unless it is small diameter no bigger than 5/16. I see the price at metal mart for 3/4 rod is overt 5.00 an inch. I offer the same rod for 30.00 per foot which is about half price. I will also cut to any length desired.  (Bob Venneri)

For those of you producing nice reel seat rings with the radiused surface and the knurled edges, how do you get the smooth rounded edge on the ring? Do you use a contoured cutter?  (Jason Swan)

My reel seats are rather rustic, but here is one method.

Do your machining on one edge before cutoff. You can use progressively finer grades of sandpaper or steel wool to round the edge. It is easy to remove the bur and feather the edge, a visible rounded surface takes more time.  Then cut it off the stock. At this point, you can put it on one of the ingenious devices sold by Tony Larson, or turn a shoulder on some round solid aluminum stock that is just 1-2 thousandths under the inside diameter of your ring. Hold the ring on your new mandrel with some hot melt ferrule cement. Then work on the other edge.

This is not a great hold, but it will work if you take your time and do not use much pressure. be sure to wear safety glasses because you will pop it off occasionally while you are learning how much force to use.

Do not secure the ring to the mandrel with epoxy, or try a friction fit. It never comes off, or you will booger it up getting it free. Don't even ask how I learned this.  (Jeff Schaeffer)

I had thought of using a mandrel of some sort.  But I also want to knurl the edge of the ring, so I'd be a bit hesitant to try sanding/filing the curve on there for fear of messing up the knurl.  Have you tried this with a decorative edge on the ring?  (Jason Swan)

Does anyone make a threaded reel seat using the modified Whitworth 3/4" X 8 tpi?   ALA Dickerson.  If so, where do you find the tooling?  Have searched everywhere with no success.  (Jerry Young)

I looked into making these threads on my lathe once and gave up. Can it be done? Yes, if you want to grind two precise bits for each pitch, but to me it ain't Whitworth it. Pun intended.  The problem I had was the rounding of the tops of the threads. The radius at the top and bottom of the threads are different for each pitch. Look at Bolt Science and you will see what I mean.

Taps & dies would be the way to go. Maybe some of our Brit Brethren know of a source. Many years ago I restored a MG and there was a place called Moss Motors in Goleta, CA near Santa Barbara that had taps & dies. Don't know if they are still in business or not.  (Don Schneider)

Moss Motors, Goleta, CA.  They're still in business, operating off funds I provided in restoring my '52 MG-TD.  (Ed Riddle)

In “The Lovely Reed,” Jack Howell has a section on making reel seat fillers and their accompanying hardware.  He briefly describes a method by which you can make soldered butt caps without the aid of a method of punching NS sheet stock.  He writes that one can use tin snips to make an oversize square, dead flatten it and your tube stock, solder the square on, and roughly trim to size with your snips.  The piece is then finished on a lathe.  I am interested in this method, but am wondering what gauge of NS sheet stock I might want in order to do this.  Obviously their is an upper limit to what will trim well using snips, and possibly a lower limit to what is useful.  The sizes that I see on the supplier’s web site are .016”, .020”, .025”, .032”, .040”, and .051”.  An abbreviated search of the archives did not shed light on this for me.  (Carl DiNardo)

You might have better results making your end caps out of 3/4 bar stock nickel silver. Turn a narrow shoulder on the stock that is about .001 larger than your tube's I.D., then cut off the disc and tap it on the end of about 6 " inches of tubing. Finish it on the lathe using a follower rest, and you will be able to clean it up nicely. Then cut to length. The long piece of tubing cut to length at the end of machining eliminates the need for a fixture to hold the end cap during final shaping and cleanup. some like to bevel the edge of the disc and the tube to hide the seam, but it is not very visible at all even with a 90 degree shoulder.   (Jeff Schaeffer)

Since we are talking about reel seats and the hardware that goes with them...

Does anyone have an easy way to make the pocket in a band? I'm not talking about the sliding bands on the usual sliding band type reel seat, I mean the pocketed band that usually goes under the cork if you are not making a mortised wood reel seat.   (Darryl Hayashida)

I make butt caps and sliding bands with pockets on a round reel seat filler. I have found the procedure in a French web site on rodbuilding. There is not much rodbuilding in France, but they have some and there are some interesting things on their site. I don't use the French method in exactly the same way but almost.

I use the copper caps used for closing copper gas or water pipes. As sliding bands I use brass rings sold in the same department and I think they are used to join two copper pipes. I take size 22 mm ID.

I have made a steel pipe dowel which fits inside the cap. I welded a piece of steel pipe on one side of the steel pipe dowel. The piece has the same size as the reel foot of the reel that will later be used on the rod. Be sure to make a nice taper on that piece.

Now put the butt cap on a piece of wood and insert the tip of the steel dowel. Some hard bangs with a hammer will push it all the way down to the bottom of the cap and will stretch the copper to the desired form. Now tap with a wooden hammer or something to free the butt cap from the dowel. It will be firmly stuck to the dowel.

You may have created a hollow end in the cap, which van be taken out quite easily with a wooden dowel. Place the butt cap again on the wooden surface, insert a wooden dowel with a smaller OD than the ID of the butt cap and give a couple of light taps with the hammer.

I use the same method for shaping my sliding rigs. It is quite fast.

You could use a piece of pipe for the ring that has to go under the end of the handle.  I did it twice but I don't like upsliding reel seats. I know, my hardware is not NS, but red copper and brass, but it doesn't look too bad. And I can easily find the caps and rings.

The French use a piece of metal with a hole ID same as OD of the butt cap and with a cut out hole to allow the swelling of the cap when stretched out on the dowel. I have made many butt caps and sliding rings with just the dowel and it works fine.  (Geert Poorteman)

You can also use a nickel, 5 cent piece that is.  (Dave Norling)

The practice of using a coin as a cap for the reel seat is quite old.  I have in my collection an old rod with a "Buffalo" nickel soldered in place.  (Ted Knott)

Seems like a great way to make sure you've always got some money with you but it probably won't work in the parking meters.  (Ray Gould)

Yeah, ask Tom Smithwick 'bout his dime capped rod someday.  Saw this rod at the CRG, and the dime makes the perfect sized cap for a normal trout rod.  He said all he had to do was to file away the ridges on the dime to have it fit just beautifully.  (Mark Wendt)

I think Jack got the idea from me because that is the exact way that I make the hoods for reel seats on sliding band, mortised inserts.

I use .025 flat nickel silver.  Some tricks:  Be sure the tubing and the flat nickel silver are clean before soldering.  I sand the flat stuff and then, using a small file, go around the inside edge of the tube where the solder will flow and clean that also.  I put a drop or two of flux inside the tubing which is set up on a piece of charcoal on top of the flat silver.  I use the silver solder that melts at 425 degrees that can be bought at most hardware stores.  I drop three small clippings from the solder into the tube and heat the entire thing with a propane torch.  It works  (Ed Hartzell)

Is it possible to make double sliding rings by hand? I thought that it might be possible to cut the NS tubing with a hand cutter then work them to shape with a file and sandpaper.  Am I nuts?  (Lee Orr)

I would suggest parting the rings off last.  They'll be a lot easier to work with the  tubing as  a 'handle'.   You can simulate a lathe-type action by rolling the tubing back & forth on a rubber mat.  You might try flipping your mouse pad over and using the back as a rolling surface.  Sorta like the Dave Collyer leg-lathe, but you'll have the support of a table top to allow you to bear down with the file.  Also, use fine-toothed jeweler's files. It'll take a bit longer, but they won't be as apt to grab or skitter.  Once you've got them the way you want, then cut them off with the tubing cutter. If you have a digital camera, I'd really like to see what you end up with. Keep us posted on how it goes.  (Tim Preusch)

I want to make sliding rings too. I would like to make aluminum ones for spinning rods and the likes, from aluminum 23 mm tubing. So please keep us posted on what you do!!! I am especially interested in how you make the rings wider on one side. (Geert Poorteman)

I was eyeing up the copper tubing at my local hardware store...  Thought it would be mighty pretty for sliding rings.  How does one get that verdigris thing to happen on copper?  Is copper a good choice?

Any ideas on how to make a pocket cap to complete the set?  Never used a rod with two rings?  Secure?  (Joe West)

Time will take care of the verdigris thing, especially if you want it to Stay-Brite copper. Try looking at the fittings for copper pipe for an end cap of the appropriate size, then shape it yourself, copper is very soft and with a little ingenuity you can come up with something to shape a pocket in it.  (John Channer)

There is a product called Patina Green.  It's a "master finishing solution for the reproduction of an antique verdigris finish on copper, brass and bronze".  At least that what it says on the bottle.  It is made by Modern Options out of San Francisco.  Sorry, I don't have a phone number.  The safety information on the bottle says it contains ammonium chloride and copper sulfate.  It's used by artists and restorers to give copper that "green finish" if that's what your looking for.  I can't remember where I got mine but you might try art supply or building supply stores.  If you want to maintain the bright copper finish then lacquer or a clear coat of enamel is the way to go.  (Brian Smith)

I made a reel seat  with copper rings. Easy to work with. I used a lacquer coat to minimize corrosion or whatever.

And yes indeed, two sliding rings are a secure way to go, particularly on light rods for minimum weight.   (Bill Fink)

Keep in mind that when the lacquer or other coating wears off, the copper will leave a green ring around the reel seat just like it did on your girlfriend's finger back in 5th grade.  (Tim Preusch)

How about a very, very thin coat of 30 minute epoxy?  Just rub it on with a plastic bag?  (Joe West)

So far, after a couple of years the green hasn't shown, though I'm sure it will. Doesn't matter much because the arbor is of wine bottle corks. And, oh yes, for maximum reel security try cork arbors with sliding rings. The cork needn't be from wine bottles. Just that we have a big surplus.

That sounds like a neat idea to try epoxy applied in a plastic bag.  Use a strong bag.

The copper tubing is just 3/4 inch OD plumbing stuff, common as dirt. I've also used stainless steel tubing for sliding rings. They looks pretty nice for you cosmetics guys, but hard as the devil to work with.  (Bill Fink)

I made copper sliding rings. I just leave it and a natural patina forms. Being a sculptor I know something about patina on bronze. You know what the old masters did? Bury the sculpture in a corner of the workshop and pee on it for a couple of weeks while it is under the ground. The acids make a nice patina,  old masters.  (Geert Poorteman)

No, you're not nuts. But the job will be a lot easier and the finished product will probably be better if you use machinery of some sort to rotate the pieces.  (Ron Grantham)

Just be sure to check the inside edges of the cut tubing, tubing cutters will leave a burr all the way around the inside edge.  (John Channer)

I have a Lee Wulff Midge rod that was made with two plain aluminum rings.  About as minimalist as you can get and still hold the reel in place.  (Ted Knott)

I made aluminum sliding bands from aluminum pipe. I cut it to the width I want. I found that to turn the bands down i.e. made them fancier than just pipe I use a small rubber sanding drum. I take the sand paper off an use the 3/4 inch rubber drum. It has a nut that expands the rubber and it will hold the band.  It looks nice if you just take a file and flatten it and then steel wool to give it a brushed finish.  You can also take sandpaper to get it smoother and a polish like perfect II or III or Finesse to get a mirror finish.  It also looks good if you use a round file to made an indention in the middle. I also like to round the edges.  Inside I suggest that you also round the edge or it is prone to cut into the reel seat insert.  If I just want one sliding band I will recess and glue one ring into the reel seat by first drilling a hole with the proper size Forstner bit. Hope this helps.  (David Ray)

How are you making caps for cap and ring reel seats?  I assume some kind of arbor press and a mold?  Make your own mold?   (Joe West)

One good source is to use Gary Dabrowski's blanks found here. They are excellent products. Good prices, and Gary is a fine gentleman.  (Bob Maulucci)

There are four methods.

1. Sheet stock pressed over a mold with some type of press. These are cool because you can make pocketed caps. But you need a press and a mold.

2. Turned from solid stock. Beautiful and strong, but bar stock is expensive.

3. Tubing, with sheet soldered onto the tubing. This is what Jack Howells describes in The Lovely Reed.

4. Tubing, with a turned disc from bar stock (with a small shoulder) that can be inserted into the tubing. Then soldered. This is what I use because you get a good friction fit that might hold itself, the solder just bonds it in place.

The trouble comes when you go to make the ring. I make most of my reel seats with a .650 spacer, the cap has an inside diameter of .650. For the ring,  I use .687 ID tubing. It holds the reel nicely, and it slides easily over the spacer. You have more than enough material on either for knurling, grooves, and other completely unnecessary embellishments.

If you are making reel seats with a .687 outside diameter you need to get the thick walled tubing and open it up on the lathe, or swage/stretch the .687 ring to make it large enough to fit.  (Jeff Schaeffer)

I was looking through the Little Machine Shop catalog and saw a radius and ball tool.  Is this what I need to cut curves and such on sliding bands?  (Lee Orr)

I really don't think so. I have a tool bit with a radius for the band ground in it. It works very well.  I got it from Bob Nunley a while back.  (Tony Spezio)

OK,  I thought that would work too.  Just not sure how to grind it evenly.  I also have to get better wheels for my grinder.  The bits eat it up.  (Lee Orr)

If you are grinding carbide, you need a green stone or the carbide will chew your stone up.  (Tony Spezio)

Those are used mainly for machining sphere's and ball ends on things like handles.  Easiest way to cut the curves on sliding bands is to grind a tool with a curve in it.  Or, use a regular cutting tool, get the shape close, and use a small file to get the finished curve.  (Mark Wendt)

First how do you chuck up NS tubing so it can be turned.  I've tried and I either crush it or pull it out of the chuck when I'm turning it.

Second, is it possible to make drawn butt caps yourself.  I have a sheet of NS that I thought about trying to pound it down through a drilled hole.

Thirdly, could I just cut the NS tubing I have then solder on a cap using my NS sheet.  Would I use silver solder?  (Lee Orr)

I slip a length of dowel in the tube. I turned down several pieces to fit the tubing. Cut the flat stock and solder it with Silver solder. I was making my own hardware but decided it was less hassle to buy them. I had to give it a try and I still occasionally make a ferrule or two in sizes I don't have.  (Tony Spezio)

Use a nickel (5 cent coin) for the cap.  (Dave Norling)

You're not far behind me on the learning curve.  Here are a few thoughts and resources:

1.  Buy 'The Home Machinist's Handbook' by Doug Briney.  Learning to use the lathe is half the battle.  I had the same crushing and pulling problems.  The position and type of bit, feed and speed are critical to a clean cut.  Just get the book.

2.  Search the archives for "ferrule making" and other variations of the subject like "making ferrules".  There's not much out there but there's enough to piece the process together.

3.  Scan all the "Ferrule" pages (here) on the bamboorodmaking web site for tubing related discussions.

4.  See the 'Expanding Draw Collet' article by Jerry Snider in the April 2004 Power Fibers.

5. Take a look at the Rodmakers Findings info on Gary Dabrowski's web site.

6.  On your third question...yep, it's just that simple.  Bought the sheet stock at www.monsterslayer.com.  Don't forget to use tubing for the slide band that's a little larger in diameter than the but cap.  It's got to slide over the reel seat insert without binding.

7.  The right solder is a big deal.  I'm using Hi-Force 44 purchased online from Brownells online.  Solder recommended by Dave LeClair.  Watch for related LeClair posts in the archives.  The one I have in my notes is from June 9, 1998.  The subject line is "making ferrules???".

8.  FWIW, I've attached the spreadsheet (get it here) I built for ferrule dimensions.  It's my interpretation of the Super Z adapted based on discussions with Alan Kube (make's all his ferrules from tubing).

I've yet to find a comprehensive description of the tube based ferrule making process.  That's probably because there's very little tubing left from the original Zimny order.  I think most makers gave it up for efficiency sake or switched to turning ferrules out of bar stock.  Maybe you can piece the process together from these resources.  I had the benefit of watching Alan Kube make ferrules at two different gatherings.  He makes it look simple, but it's assumed that you have basic lathe skills.  I did not.  The simple steps aren't simple if you don't know the basic lathe stuff mentioned in number 1 above.  Get the book and practice with some scrap stuff before you destroy some good tubing, like I did.  It really does work.  I've made the ferrules and reel seat hardware for my last three rods.  It takes some time, but I don't mind that.  I'm just making rods for friends.  They can wait.

Good luck - and be careful with that lathe.  It can do some serious bodily damage in a hurry.  (David Bolin)

With regard to reel seat hardware of nickel silver, how thin is too thin. Is .015 OK?  (Jim Lowe)

I personally think .015 is too thin, you will be better served with something in the .026-.032 range. How many older rods with metal seat do you see that are bashed up .dinged etc. Most of them were in the 1/64th range. Their age plays a factor also.  (Jed Dempsey)

Some old production rods have nickle plated (or chrome) brass reel seats made of very thin (.015"+/-) material. Reel seats in of them selves, do not necessarily sustain much of a load in use. Butt caps on the other hand resist considerable force transmitted from the reel. Some cheap production rods also utilized thin wall material, and the condition of some of them after years of use, indicate a definite inadequacy. I cannot attest to the flat stock thickness of the strip used in Garrison's drawn butt caps, but when machining butt caps from solid stock, my design provides a minimum side wall thickness of .025" and about .040" in the bottom.   (Vince Brannick)

I have seen the nickel plated brass ferrules on low end rods from Horrocks & Ibbotson, Montague etc that are split. I don't think that In all my restoration work that I've seen a split pure NS ferrule. Bent, worn, and maybe stretched, but not split.  Drawn nickel silver tubing, seems to be pretty tough.  (Doug Easton)

Based on info some of our engineer and machinist members have posted, Brass is stronger than nickle silver.  The split ferrules on inexpensive production rods, as well as most rods made across the pond, my be due to poor design or manufacture.  Lack of crowning and feathering tends to concentrate stress at the transition point and fails to spread the stress over a larger area, reducing the chance of splits or broken rods at the ferrule.

I've seen my share of split NS ferrules, but few of "more modern" design.  (John Dotson)

There is such a WIDE variation in material properties to be able to make generalizations.  Hard drawn 752 Nickel Silver has twice the yield strength of cold drawn 1010 steel.  Annealed 752 Nickel Silver has half the strength of cold drawn 1010 steel.   You can find similar trends in the many brasses out there.  Some alloys tend to stretch rather than crack, and on and on.

So you really need to know the precise alloys and their respective tempers before you can make a comparison.

Last year I TRIED to make some generalizations among the metals that have been discussed here and was called on the carpet.  Rightfully so.  I had to make guesses at the alloys and tempers mentioned.  I was, at best, in the middle of the ball park.  Anyone could have cited a particular alloy that would have had better or worse properties in a give alloy class.  (Al Baldauski)

Great information we rarely consider but clearly should. (John Dotson)

I'm sure I have posted this in the past, but for the benefit of anyone new, there is an excellent reference chart for copper alloys here.  For those that don't speak the language, Tensile strength is the amount of stretching force that causes the metal to break.  As the stretching force is applied, the metal deforms in proportion to the force applied, until you reach a point when the metal starts to give way and stretches out of proportion to the force applied. That is called the yield point. Elongation is the amount the metal stretches before it breaks, expressed as a percentage.  (Tom Smithwick)

I am certainly no metallurgist. I was only making a practical observation.  I expect that you guys are both right. It seems that some people say that NPB ferrules on some rods were poorly designed, some have said that they were fitted too tightly, others say that they were overly work hardened etc.

I would be really happy to find someone making a full line of drawn nickel silver step down ferrules with hard welts.  (Doug Easton)