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I turn ferrules from bar stock. I bought reamers and screw machine length drills bits from J & L Industrial (bought the cheaper imported ones in 64th). I bought two of each drill. One I drill with and the second I cut the end off and sharpened it to use to square the bottom. For doing the drilling, I have a piece of Plexiglas mounted to the tailstock rod and a dial indicator measures the depth of drill; same as "Varmint Al" has on his web page. I use collets to hold the ends of the ferrule while machining. I turned a brass arbor for a .008"/010" jewelers saw to fit a Dremel tool. I use the jeweler saw in the Dremel to slot the finished ferrule. The lathe chuck holds the ferrule. I index the chuck for each slot. (Onis Cogburn)
Here is my procedure for building ferrules and the male ferrule procedure is included. The dimensions are for a #14, following the Super Z spec of 3.8 x D. Female depth is 4 x D. The lengths kinda just worked themselves out following those rules. I aimed for a 0.020" wall thickness, there are a few exceptions to allow for common reamer sizes, but never went under 0.016". If people are interested I have procedures for other sizes I will send to them. Super Z ferrule # 14
Male Ferrule (use 5/16" stock)
(Tom Ausfeld)
If I am buying reamers for ferrule making, do I need sizes beyond the sizes I am making the ferrules in? In other words, if I make a 14 ferrule, I will need a 14/64, plus the next size up or down for the other ends, right? (Rob Clarke) I would use a 13/64 drill bit, and then 14/64 reamer to make a male 14/64 ferrule (and the female end that fits to bamboo). I would use a 14/64 drill bit and then 15/64, and 16/64 straight fluted chucking reamers to make a female 14/64th ferrule. This works for me when I make ferrules from barstock. I do not know first hand about how making ferrules from tubing would be different. I will be honest and say that since getting $20 (full 2/2) sets from Rush River Rods, I make very few ferrules as of late. It takes me a long time to make them, it is not worth my time unless I can do better than what I can buy. I cannot. (Bob Maulucci) PS. I have no financial interest in these ferrules. I must admit that if he stops producing them because of lack of sales, I would be upset.
I've started making my own ferrules out of solid NS round stock and my aviation maintenance twist drills are not working as well as I'd like. I have been searching through MSC's big book looking for drills that will work well in my lathe for making ferrules. The three that look like they would work well are, Screw Machine Parabolic ($3.59), General Chipbreaker ($21.20), and Half Round ($7.65). Do any of you have experience with any of these? Does anyone have a good recommendation for other drills to use? Here are the three drills I'm currently looking at:
Parabolic
General Chipbreaker
Half Round (Jeff Fultz) I use my aviation drill bits then ream with a chucking reamer to the finished size. I have laps but find I really don't need them. I have made ferrules from Brass, Aluminum, Dura bronze and Nickel Silver. (Tony Spezio) Thanks everyone for all the help. I think I'll stick with my high quality regular twist drills but use a reamer to finish. I've been using flat fluted drills to obtain a flat bottom and I'm not sure how the reamers will work on this. I don't have much experience with this small precision stuff, but it sure is fun....wait a minute...no it's not...it's a real pain in the backside... what was I thinking...making my own ferrules....argh! (Jeff Fultz)
I do my own ferrules on a 7x10 but as I use solid rod and drill and ream, I don't think much of what I do would be of use to you with tubing. They work fine and they are cheap. I got them a few at a time until I had the sizes I needed. If your tubing is thick enough to do machining, you might consider a set of collets. I am using ER type collets that work great but MicroMark has an attractive collet set with a chuck for about $110. (Onis Cogburn)
I begin making my ferrules by drilling from both ends and leaving a dam for waterproofing. I now through drill using the short auto screw machine drills and ream. Making a waterproof dam from bar and trying to cut a wafer of the end of the bar was not efficient. Took two pieces of 1/4" x 1 1/2" ground tool steel flat and indexed each end with a 1/4" tapered pin, using a tapered pin reamer so the two plates has no chance but to index exactly. Drilled a series of undersized holes leaving .0005 for cleanup with a reamer, for 9/64" thru 26/64". My local tool supply sold me die makers guide pins (about a $1.00 each). 2" long and hardened alloy ground pins dead flat on each end. Cut those in half with abrasive cut off, now I have two punches. Slip a sheet of nickel silver in between the plates and give it a good rap with a ball pean hammer. Perfect dam every time. Made a drift for each sized ferrule from round brass bar that locates the depth of the dam in the female. Insert a dam in the back end of the ferrule, flux and a few shavings of silver solder, apply heat and you have a perfect ferrule every time. Have used .032 sheet OK but just got some .020 sheet from Sheffield Knife Supply and that works as well. (Jerry Young)
Anyone had problems making ferrules from solid bar? I have flubbed up two sets so far. Any words of wisdom out there? (Rob Clarke) I find that they work just fine. I center drill. Then I drill to the water check with a drill 2 sizes small. Then I ream up to sizes to what I want with a straight fluted reamer in the tailstock. For example, in a 14/64 ferrule male: Drill 12/64 The double reaming seems to work just great. I am going to get a set of blind hole laps soon to assist in the seating of the male. The laps will make the inside of the female very smooth. Are you using a mandrel (drill rods are cheap) to turn the outside, or is the problem somewhere else? (Bob Maulucci) Here is my procedure for female ferrules.... Female Ferrule (use 5/16" stock) #14
I turn ferrules from bar stock. I bought reamers and screw machine length drills bits from J & L Industrial (bought the cheaper imported ones in 64th). I bought two of each drill. One I drill with and the second I cut the end off and sharpened it to use to square the bottom. For doing the drilling, I have a piece of Plexiglas mounted to the tailstock rod and a dial indicator measures the depth of drill; same as "Varmint Al" has on his web page. I use collets to hold the ends of the ferrule while machining. I turned a brass arbor for a .008"/010" jewelers saw to fit a Dremel tool. I use the jeweler saw in the Dremel to slot the finished ferrule. The lathe chuck holds the ferrule. I index the chuck for each slot. (Onis Cogburn)
Here is my procedure that is slightly changed from the one I recently posted and the male ferrule procedure is included. The dimensions are for a #14, following the Super Z spec of 3.8*D. Female depth is 4*D. The lengths kinda just worked themselves out following those rules. I aimed for a 0.020" wall thickness, there are a few exceptions to allow for common reamer sizes, but never went under 0.016". If people are interested I have procedures for other sizes I will send to them. (Tom Ausfeld) Super Z ferrule # 14 Female Ferrule (use 5/16" stock)
Male Ferrule (use 5/16" stock)
Optional
After spending many hours in front of the lathe, I came up with a few things that have made it easier and quicker to make ferrules. I am not a machinist, so if anybody has any suggestions please write in. Basically I was looking for the most steps completed with the minimum changes to the setup of the lathe. First step is drilling. I have made a few bushings that are of proper size so that with the drill seated as far as it will go in the Jacobs chuck, and the bushing slid over the drill down to the jaws of the chuck drills the proper depth hole without having to stop and measure. I have found that solid carbide drills are the best, but the cost is high - $12 to $30 depending on size. High Speed Steel or Cobalt steel is pretty good, they are $2 to $10 apiece. In any case investment in a drill sharpener will help tremendously. When drilling, backing out and clearing the chips off of the bit every couple of turns of the tailstock handle helps a lot. The jobbers length short flute drills are more rigid and don't wander as much as a standard drill. If the depth of the hole that the bamboo goes into is the same depth for both the male and female (it is for the Super Z design), three ends of three pieces of a rod can be drilled without having to change anything with the lathe setup. Since this is the bamboo side of the ferrule at the end of the rods, the female is turned with the welt still attached, and the males are turned with the closed end still attached. A good high quality live center makes turning the ferrules a lot easier. Don't scrimp too much in buying a live center. The rods have already been drilled on the ends, so install the live center and start turning. Aluminum is easy to turn, I have taken up to .025 off at a time. I found if I crank in the tool .005, then using the carriage wheel move the tool a 16th or so back and forth, I can crank in the tool another .005, etc. until I get .025 in, then I engage the lead screw. A thick curl of aluminum comes off at one pass. I use a turning tool with a replaceable triangular carbide insert to do this. If they are available two different diameter rods will help time wise. The smaller to make the males - overall they are smaller in diameter than the female. Starting off with a 1/2 inch diameter rod to turn both the males and female will result in having to take off a lot more material for the males. Time and effort wasted just removing excess metal. If you start with a rod close to final size, less time removing metal. So, at this point the holes the bamboo will be glued into are drilled, the outside dimensions of both the males and female are turned, but they are still attached to the rod stock. Change the turning tool to a parting blade (or use a hack saw), and cut loose the pieces. The males are almost finished, a little trimming and facing of the closed end, and cutting the tabs is all that needs to be done. The female needs to have the slide hole drilled and reamed, so changing back to the Jacobs chuck is necessary, but drilling can be done by the drill used before and should still in the Jacobs chuck, I just change the bushing to the a size made to drill the slide hole. Reaming will then be to 2/64ths larger, but I haven't had any problems with that yet. A little touching up of the welt depending on how fancy you want it, little polishing, cut the tabs and it's done. Tailstock didn't need to be moved, the Jacobs chuck and live center were swapped twice, and each piece only needed to be reversed once. For changing turning tools, I bought a quick change tool post, not an expensive one ($100 - $200), but one that cost $55, and I'm happy with it. The main features is of course the quick tool change, but it also allows you to vary the height the tools touch the rod stock (at center, below center or where ever). With aluminum and this method I can make a two male set in less than an hour. Anybody see anything that could make this more efficient? (Darryl Hayashida) What one found after several trials is the best way for the person, I guess. Your method sounds good as you do not rechuck the stock. It will keep the center very well. This is the way I am recently doing just for your reference. It is not necessarily the correct method, just for reference... In my case, efficiency includes the time of fitting male and female. In most cases I sand the male slide by hand using wet sand paper. Fitting with lathe is a little scared for me. So fitting usually took more time than turning ferrules on the lathe for me. So, I complete female ferrule first then turn male slide up to the female hole size but just a bit thicker (about 0.01 mm thicker in diameter). I tries to fit the male slide into female on lathe. Even though I rely much on to the lathe's handle scale, it sometime differs from the calculation, so I always tries to fit the male to female actually on the lathe. When just the edge of male tend to enter the hole of female sleeve but it never goes in easily, I stop turning the male slide. My sequence of turning is as follows; I prepare three sizes of NS stock, 10 mm, 8 mm, and 6 mm in diameter and make a choice for the size of ferrule. Turn the skin of stock first with the necessary length for ferrule. This is to make the area shape of stock completely round since the stock itself is not always in round shape nor straight. Then I cut the stock into a little bit larger than the necessary length of each part of ferrule as the edge of the stock is later be turned to acquire smooth face. Smooth surface of the edge is also needed to drill at the center too. I drill bamboo end of both male and female first. Then drill female's sleeve and ream it. Before this, as I re-chuck the ferrule, I tries to chuck and measure if the ferrule is surely hold "centered". For this measurement, I use test indicator, a kind of dial gauge. After drilling and reaming, I turn outside of the female then male. I am making so called a "cut ring" with the same (or a little bit larger) diameter with ferrules, someone uses collet for this. As this method will re-chuck the stock, I have to be very careful to chuck the stock with centered. Turning outside is in the sequence below: Female:
Male:
Serration: Prepare a hex shape alloy and hole it a little bit larger than female OD, and cut one side and file the cut. Length will do by 10~15 mm. Tape around each ferrule to fit the hole of hex cut ring so as to the hex cut ring will hold the ferrule tightly. Hold the hex cut ring with quick change holder and set it on the quick change post. Each surface of outside hex shape will lead you into the correct angle of serration. Cut the serration at the center of ferrule by 0.2mm metal saw. Turn the hex cut ring one side next in the quick change holder and cut next side of serration. Do this for three surface of hex cut ring. (Max Satoh) P.S. Though I do not know if it is true, someone said that the dust of aluminum is not good for health when swallowed... Any kind of dust is not good for health though...
I've begun attempting to make NS ferrules from 5/16 rod. It seems that when I face off the stock in preparation for center drilling that a small "tip, tit, spur" (call it what you will) remains at the very center of the rod and it is VERY hard to remove and make the rod end truly flat. I feel like the lathe tool is sharp and is well centered. Am I wrong? and what can I do to get rid of this problem? (Don Greife) Sounds to me as if the bit isn't quite centered. You might try a shim under it. Maybe a piece of paper, or a thin feeler gauge if you don't have shim stock. My local hobby shop carries brass shim stock in an assortment of thicknesses for not too much. (Neil Savage) That's usually a sign that the lathe bit is just a hair too low, as you have already guessed. Perhaps you might triple check it??? (Harry Boyd) That little tit means that your tool is just slightly below center. You may need to shim the tool up just slightly, or if you have one of the old fashioned tool posts that they use on the bigger lathes, adjust the tool up slightly higher. I seem to recall you had one of the 7 x 10/12 lathes though. If your cutting tool is just a little too low, you will get that "tit". I use feeler gauges to shim my cutting tool to the center line on my Homier Lathe. (Mark Wendt) I think the cutter is too low. Not by much but too low just the same. If you're sure the tailstock is correctly set put your dead center in place and set the cutter at the same height as the point of the dead center, then just a very small amount lower. (Tony Young) As I recall, the tool should be set at something like 5 degrees below center. A simple way of finding the center and setting tool height, is to use a small metal rule. Place the rule between the work and the tool and bring the tool into the rule. If the rule remains vertical then the tool is dead center. If the top of the rule moves toward you, the tool is below center and if it moves away, above center. Normally you would want the tool just slightly below center. (Tim Wilhelm) That'll work. I found NS should be closer to dead center than steel or you'll get splintering of the work but the difference between correct height and too far one way or the other is not much. Get it right and things will go well. (Tony Young)
If you remember I made my first ferrule out of aluminum and it was beautiful. So I thought.... My inside depths were a little off but close enough for the government. My second attempts, making triple sure the measurements are all dead on kept failing. New guy, new to this ferrule making process, haven't been around a lathe in 10 years, I kept drilling all the way through the damn thing. Blamed my self for not paying close enough attention to the numbers. What a jerk I've been. The numbers on the chart don't add up. Female ferrule: Total length 1.690" Bamboo side depth 1.120 male slide depth .650 Add the two inside depths together, BINGO, longer than the overall depth... through hole, every time. Lesson learned, double check everything, no matter where you get the information from. (Ren Monllor) I totally agree with you. I too am gathering all the information I can about making ferrules since I just received my Homier about 3 weeks ago. Not being a machinist, I have been struggling getting all the concepts, drawings dimensions etc. straight in my mind. Much of it is my own stupidity but I do find that some of the diagrams and charts just don't add up for me. I have also taken purchased ferrules, that I have yet to mount on blanks, to use as comparisons to the charts. They just don't agree. The only dimension that appears to be standard is the hole which will receive the bamboo. All this said, the procedure I intend to follow is the one written by Tom Ausfeld and can be found in Power Fibers volume 6. This one seems to make the most sense for me after studying it for a few days. (Bill Bixler) Garrison said tubing was the best material for making ferrules, so a through hole isn't too surprising. I have a chart, apparently the same one you have (at least the dimensions are the same) but I thought it came from Garrison, and now I can't find it. (Neil Savage) The chart I referred to is printed with the article. Power Fibers Volume# 6. (Bill Bixler)
How difficult is it to make ferrules? Has anyone on the list made their own? Does anyone have dimensioned drawings? I would like try my hand at making ferrules for bamboo rods. I love a challenge! (Chuck Pickering) I've been making my own ferrules for a few years now. If you're familiar around the lathe, and know how to make up a few different jigs and fixtures, it really isn't that difficult. A few years back there was an article in Power Fibers on making your own ferrules. It described making a male and female super Z ferrule. It's what got me started in making my own. Todd, do you happen to remember what issue that was in? (Mark Wendt) Is this it? Ferrule Making 101 by Thomas Ausfeld January 2002 Volume #6. (Scott Bearden) Yep, that's the one. (Mark Wendt) That's the one I'd be thinking about! (Todd Talsma)
I am about to machine my first set of NS ferrules and cap and rings and have a couple of questions. 1. What is the best "Surface Speed" to use, in feet per minute. I am not sure about the alloy but the NS bar stock alloy was purchased from Jantz Supply. 2. I also would like some suggestions for the correct spindle speed to use when slitting ferrule tabs with a 1"x.010"x1/4" jewelers saw. (Don Green) I am about to machine my first set of NS ferrules and cap and rings and have a couple of questions. 1. What is the best "Surface Speed" to use, in feet per minute. I am not sure about the alloy but the NS bar stock alloy was purchased from Jantz Supply. It kinda depends - are your cutting tools HSS or carbide? I use carbide most of the time, and on my mini-lathe my speed is set to about the mid-range on the high speed setting. 2. I also would like some suggestions for the correct spindle speed to use when slitting ferrule tabs with a 1"x.010"x1/4" jewelers saw. This I tend to run about 1/4 to 1/3 on the low speed setting on the mini-lathe. I found the higher speeds sometimes would have the saw "grab" and bend the tabs on me. I do it sorta be feel with the low speed, slowly feeding the cross-slide holding the work piece into the saw. (Mark Wendt) I am using carbide tipped cutting tools with the exception of a HSS cut off tool. As for the lathe I have an old Atlas/Craftsman with 16 different combinations of belts, pulleys and gears resulting in 16 different spindle speeds ranging from a low of 28 r.p.m. to a high of 2072 r.p.m. It is difficult for me to relate a variable speed control and how fast the spindle speed might be at "mid-range". The reason I am asking for a suggested "Surface Speed in Feet per Minute" is because the actual speed at which the material will be cut will vary greatly with the diameter of the work. For example, a 1/16" diameter piece of stock turning at 2072 r.p.m. will have a "surface speed" of 30 feet per minute and a 1/4" diameter piece of stock with a spindle speed of 418 r.p.m. will also have a "surface speed" of 30 feet per minute. I am not a machinist but that kind of difference even at small sizes seems like a lot to me, what I don't know is what the effect might be. (Don Green) In fact it is harder to get good surfaces with carbide than HSS. Primarily that is because you can get HSS sharper, and by grinding your own tool angles, you get the ones you want. Let me make one thing perfectly clear, I'm not trying to be disrespectful! Just an inquiring mind wanting to know! I've heard this, read it, and have a hard time believing it. Why can't you get carbide as sharp as HSS? A lot of rodmakers have carbide tipped plane blades, saw blades are carbide tipped, drill bits can be made of carbide, the list goes on. People even use bamboo mills with cutters made with carbide inserts. How can this work if it can't be really sharp? I've reshaped carbide tipped lathe bits with a diamond burr. I hate to throw out a bit with the point chipped off. O.K. I'm too cheap for my own good! (David Dziadosz) The grain size (the individual particles of material) is much smaller with HSS than carbide...so you can achieve a finer, hence sharper, edge... But carbide is harder than HSS so it holds the edge you do get longer... Meaning you resharpen less often. (Jim Lowe) Gotcha. It's kinda like a hard brass, so the feeds and speeds for that is pretty close. The table I have shows roughly about 300 - 350 sfm for HSS, and 1170 for carbide. Here's some handy calculators that works out rpms from sfm and work diameter, along with drilling and milling speeds. Their on-line calculators which make them a bit of a PITA, nut they give you a good starting point. One of these days I'm going to hook up a tach to my spindle, just to see how close I've been to the calculated stuff... ;-) (Mark Wendt) If your concern is with spindle speed for the saw blade, it seems you must (may) have an indexing device on your cross slide. A suggestion to avoid 'tear out' at higher rpm would be to make some plugs of aluminum or brass to fit semi snuggly into the tab ends. Climb milling (with plugs supported) can also help. (Vince Brannick)
In my experiments with machining my own bar stock ferrules, I bore the bamboo end and then fit a steel mandrel in the hole and bring up the dead center to support the work during final turning of the exterior. Often after removal of from the lathe, it would be desirable to mount the ferrule on the mandrel and reverse it in the lathe for final fitting or polishing. Does anyone have experience with or maybe recommend a temporary adhesive that is reversible. Maybe a Loc-Tite type of product. I tried a tiny drop of CA but it was too super. (Rick Hodges) I did that and found I could break down the CA glue by heating with a heat gun. (Mike McGuire) If you soak it in acetone overnight, it will usually twist off. If not, heat always works. Maybe it's not a good idea to breathe the smoke that comes from heated CA glue. (Grayson Davis) I think you guys are making this too difficult. Why not just use Ferrule Cement? If the ferrule comes loose while fishing or you want to remove it, just heat it with a lighter and remove or re-attach. Simple! (Don Schneider) That is probably the best suggestion anyone had made for attaching ferrules. We probably have made this more complicated. Than need be. After all, did Payne or Leonard or the other old masters have epoxy? (Bret Reiter) In one of my former lives I used to do paint less dent repair and sometimes we would use a tab glued to the panels with hot melt glue. When done we would simply squirt some denatured alcohol on the tab and it would come right off! No damage to the paint on your nice new Mercedes or what have you! So you might give this a try. Just sayin' (Joe Arguello) Along with the other great suggestions you can also consider a dab of Ferrule Tite (thermal adhesive). You may also consider of trapping the end of the tabs between the mandrel and chuck jaws/collet. (Gary Young) When I make metal ferrules I use a minus pin gage for a mandrel and just use pressure from a live center to hold the blank in place once the cane hole and cavity have been drilled. Finishing cuts on the OD have to be pretty light. Using glue sounds interesting but how do you clean it out of the cane hole? I assume you wouldn't want to put glue in the female cavity. (JW Healy) Thanks everyone. I tried the heat gun approach to get the glued ferrule loose but no go. I had it really hot too. I have some ferrule tite around, left over from my archery days. (Broad heads to shafts) I think I will give that a try. Only on the bamboo end of course. I guess pliobond might work too. (Rick Hodges) A friend of mine who used to be on the Olympic archery team said that he thinks this would work great for rod ferrules. I am teaching him how to make rods & when he glued his ferrules on with Golfsmith epoxy he said it was just like what they used when they made their arrows. (Bret Reiter) The obvious thing is that, in trying to remove epoxy-glued ferrules with heat, by the time you have heated the ferrule enough to do the job (if ever), you have also cooked and ruined the cane section. My thoughts over the past 10 years or so is that it doesn't take much to build a new section, so I just cut them off, drill 'em out and go again! Well, that's not quite true - I DO try gentle to moderate heat application first. But it seldom works. (Peter McKean) My experience is the same although I persist with epoxy. My response is the opposite in that I grind off the offending ferrule. I use a sanding disc on the side of the ferrule until the metal is paper thin then finish with a file, normally doing one side is enough. (Gary Marshall) The breakdown temp for most epoxies is well below the 175 C/ 350 F that does things to bamboo. One exception is JB Weld. When I need to pull a ferrule, I have a wooden clamp properly sized for the ferrule handy. I heat, quickly attach the clamp, and pull. I have always been able to get the ferrule loose with no damage to the cane. (Mike McGuire) Well, I can report that the ferrule-tite worked perfectly for my application. (Holding ferrule to mandrel.) I polished up a full set this afternoon. Hold the mandrel in the lathe 3-jaw and apply a little heat with the gun. Melt on a tiny amount of ferrule-tite. Heat the ferrule a little and slide it on to the mandrel. When done, about 15 seconds with the heat gun and the ferrule slides off. You can then put on the next one. No need for more glue. When all done, I found a little acetone removed the glue from the mandrel. Haven't tried to clean out the ferrules yet but assume the acetone would loosen the goo there too. (Rick Hodges) Oh! I see what you mean! I am afraid I am getting old and silly here. When I want to hold a ferrule in place for polishing/fitting, I just snug it up nice and right and put a wrap of masking tape around under a fair bit of tension. Not perfect, but it works pretty well, and the masking tape does not leave a heap of glop on the cane. Or the ferrule. Or your fingers, for that matter. (Peter McKean) Why not make up or buy an expanding mandrel? (Mark Wendt) Where can you find one small enough that adjusts from the rear? (JW Healy) When I started fooling around with making ferrules, I just ordered 3 foot lengths of drill rod in the 5 or 6 common 64th diameters. Dirt cheap and now I have a lifetime supply of mandrel stock. It seems it is usually a bit oversize, maybe .0005 so a little sanding makes it a nice pop fit. I have made expanding mandrels to hold things like but caps but the small diameters, I don't know. (Rick Hodges) That's why I also said "Why not make up..." They can be made with 4-40 bolts and nuts. Doesn't take much to hold the ferrule in place on the mandrel. Take the design that Gary Dabrowski drew up for holding the rodmakers findings and "smallerize" it to fit what you need. (Mark Wendt)
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