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< Home < Tips Area < Hardware < Ferrules < Gluing
I know this subject has been beaten to death on this list, but I am at a loss of what happened and am asking for any suggestions. On my last rod both female ferrules became unattached from the bamboo. A 3 piece 5 wt, similar in taper to a Payne 101. The lower Ferrule became completely loose while the tip ferrule only showed signs of coming loose. I had fished the rod for almost one year prior to this. The day I noticed the bottom ferrule coming loose, I had fished for about 4 hours. I have been using the Ferrule-Tight hot melt glue, and prior to this I have experienced no problems. The glue seemed to stick to the ferrule and not the bamboo, but to be honest the glue joint looked a bit starved of glue. Is there a shelf life to the stick? What is the best practice of applying a ferrule using the hot melt glue? (Taylor Hogan) The best practice with the hot melt glue is to leave it on your shelf. Instead, use either a golf club "shafting" epoxy or "Accraglas" epoxy from Brownell’s. But, in all cases, clean both the inside of the ferrule and the prepared station on your blanks with acetone, lacquer thinner or MEK.. Some fellows claim it is nearly impossible to starve a glue joint with the fitted ferrule, but I do not believe that. I think it is both possible and likely that we starve the joint when we strive for the perfect, press fit. (Bill Harms) I clean the insides of my ferrules with an aerosol can of brake cleaner from an auto store. It is used to clean the disassembled brake before putting on the new shoes. It comes with a straw like WD40 you can stick right in and squirt under pressure. I then dry it off with air (primitive method of straw in mouth and blow) (Dave Norling) I use Ferr-L-Tite also, one thing that I found is you must heat the bamboo that the glue is going to come in contact with. I heat the end of the glue stick and the end of the blank at the same time. When the glue is soft, smear it on the end of the blank. Continue to heat the end of the blank with the glue on it for a few seconds longer, then slide it into the ferrule. Heat the ferrule and seat it. If you just heat the glue and smear it on a cold (okay, room temp.) blank it will - you guessed it - peel right off. I also shave a little bit of glue off of the stick and drop it in the ferrule before I put the blank in it. That's why I heat the ferrule and seat it. You must always get a little bit of squeeze out between the tabs. Let it cool, trim off the bits of glue with a razor blade, and if the tabs are away from the blank, wrap a few turns of thin gauge wire around the tabs, heat and they are down. (Darryl Hayashida)
Enco has stainless steel brushes in many sizes. They have wire handles and are good for scuffing up the insides of ferrules prior to gluing. I use the 3/16" size on 13/64 ferrules. Enco's catalog # for this one is BF 325-0691. They are presently on sale. $1.59 Their phone # is 1-800-873-3626 They have an on line catalog (no I don't own the company) (Dave Norling)
I do a lot of chain sawing, and find that a broken saw sharpening file, .125 OD, works just fine for cleaning ferrules. (Bill Fink) Like Bill however I do find a chain saw file is perfect for cleaning out and roughing up ferrules prior to gluing. (Ian Kearney) Yes, if you gouge a good deep spiral down the inside of the ferrule it's almost as good as pinning. I pushed such a ferrule on to the end of a rod one time, prefitting it prior to gluing and I ended up peeling it off in pieces. (Timothy Troester)
I just had my first ferrule failure, and it was a double! I went fishing with a 3 piece rod this morning, and when we got back to the car, the tip pulled right out of the male. I thought no big deal, just glue it back on. When I got home and checked the fit, the tip section just slid easily in and out of the ferrule. That was disturbing, but then I noticed a 1/8" gap in the wraps on the female of the same ferrule. After gluing on the tip section into the male, I pulled the female off of the mid and found the same loose fit. This is really scary. All the ferrules on the rod were originally glued on with Devcon 2-ton epoxy. I've been leery of that stuff ever since I discovered how easy it is to remove ferrules glued with epoxy by just heating them and letting them cool. I glued them back on with Probond polyurethane. I guess I'll see how that holds up. (Robert Kope) I've had similar failures with Devcon. Two rods/four ferrules. I have switched to Accraglas gel. No problems to date. (Mike Shay) The problems with Devcon for ferrules and reel seats shows up on the list on a recurring basis. I've had no problems at all with Golfsmith long-cure epoxy. I do want to try Accraglas, though. (Jerry Madigan) I have recently had Accraglas fail on two male ferrules on the same rod. I have sworn off it now. (Joe Byrd) Myself and a lot of other folks have had ferrule failures with Epoxy. I now use Pliobond exclusively, and haven't had a problem (garrison used it too, if that's any help to you). (Chris Obuchowski) Sounds to me like another good case for pinning ferrules. (Harry Boyd) The only failures I have had have all been a result of using Devcon 2 ton epoxy. The failures have occurred on both ferrules and real seats. I have gone to golf club epoxy from Golfworks and have not had any problems since. (Bill Bixler)
I am having a tough time getting the air out of ferrule after gluing and mounting. I am using Accraglas gel epoxy. I have never had this problem before. Question, has anyone used Epon for mounting ferrules? (Mark Dyba) First, don't put quite so much epoxy inside the ferrule. Second, file a very shallow flat along one side of the rounded blank. Third, you can take your heat gun and direct it at the ferrule so that both it and the epoxy heat up, thus thinning the epoxy. It all helps to make it go "squish". Finally, make sure to keep pressure on the blank, pressing into the ferrule, until all the little air bubbles cease to emanate from inside. (Martin-Darrell) Or a disposable lighter, aka, fuzz singer. (John Channer) I file a real shallow "V" groove in a spiral around the stick where the ferrule is to be glued on. Apply the glue, slip the ferrule on the stick. The butt of the ferrule is then set against my work bench and the stick is pushed in the ferrule till there are no more air pops. (Tony Spezio)
I have always used epoxy to mount ferrules. Last night I tried Ferrule-Tite which worked good but it sets up so fast that there is no time to bind down the tabs. Any suggestions? (Dennis Bertram) I've been using my heat gun to work with Ferr-L-Tite. It works a lot better for me than a cigarette lighter or alcohol lamp - no flames, both hands are free, and it melts the stuff quickly. I wear a glove on one hand while working with it. First step is to melt and spread some glue around the ferrule station & also dab some melted glue inside the ferrule itself. You heat everything up & mount the ferrule, and remove excess glue with your fingers. Then heat the ferrule tabs again and bind the tabs down quickly - after the metal has cooled down enough so that it won't melt the cord, but before the glue sets. You only have a few seconds. (Tom Bowden) I shape and flatten the ferrule tabs before I glue them. Also give them a squeeze with my fingers to close them up a bit, then glue in place. The purpose of binding is to hold the tabs in place, not to "pull" them into place. (Ted Knott) Work with it over an alcohol flame to keep it soft and pliable. Be careful when it starts bubbling - it will stick to your fingers and burn until it cools down, then it sticks, and you will have to pull it off, often with small pieces of your finger attached to the glue. Other than that, it's great stuff to work with. It's also great to use to attach field points and broadheads to wood arrow shafts, if you're also a bowhunter. (Greg Kuntz) Just be careful not to overheat the ferrule and cause the moisture plug soldering to come undone. (Ron Grantham)
I was mounting ferrules on some replacement tip sections I had made for a friend, and decided to use Pliobond because that was how they were mounted originally. 1. Mount without flaming. One held, the other didn't. 2. Pop off the offending ferrule, clean, reapply Pliobond. This time flash the cane (wow), and the ferrule (hardly any flames). 3. Mount ferrule. It goes on halfway. I heated the ferrule (slightly I thought), and there was a minor explosion as I watched the water seal fly across the room. What happened was that there was still some very wet Pliobond inside the ferrule- the solvent had not burned off. There was also a slight crack in the male that allowed the solvent to ignite inside the ferrule. Exactly like the touch hole on a cannon. Next time I will flash both, but also let them sit for about 20 minutes. And now I have to deal with the issue of whether to just replace the male now, or deal with it again in a year or two. (Jeff Schaeffer)
Thanks for all the responses and advice regarding my ferrule problem earlier. I solved the problem using WD40, vice grips, and brute force. Unfortunately, it did wreck the male ferrule but I happen to have a spare. I also made this a 2 tip rod that are both the same dimensions so I am off to lap the second tip and remount a ferrule on the first.
There are two popular methods of securing ferrules that seem to work well:
I would urge you to avoid all epoxies other than Golfsmith, they simply seem to fail sooner or later. The Devcon products seem especially prone to this problem, and it gets worse at low temperatures... (Jeff Schaeffer) If there is a gun shop or a GOOD sporting goods tore in your area, get some Accraglas Gel (in the green box). I have used it on 35 rods without a failure yet. (John Channer) Ditto on the green Acraglas Gel. I'm notorious for over tight ferrule fittings and have had several stuck ferrules. Pull as I might, I never unseated the rod from the ferrule. The Acraglas Gel held tight. The ferrules finally came unstuck. I take much longer fitting ferrules now. (Rick Crenshaw) Funny, the only ferrule glue failure I've had was with Golfsmith. Every ferrule I've glued with it failed within 3 months?? I must be doing something wrong. The Acraglas Gel on the other hand is great! I don't know of anyone who has ever had a failure with the Acraglas. Thanks to Larry Blan for putting me on to it. (Dennis Higham) I think problems with epoxy can come from dirty surfaces. There is an aerosol product used for cleaning brakes when doing a brake job. It is cheap and has a little tube like WD40. It does a heck of a job cleaning the assembly on brakes and because of this I use it to clean the inside of ferrules before gluing. I rough up the inside with a jewelers file, squirt the inside with the brake cleaner, blow air in it with a straw to dry it off and glue away. So far so good. (Dave Norling) I have some rods with ferrules glued on from 2 years ago with Golfworks epoxy and they are still tight. The only ones I have had fail were glued with Pliobond. (Bret Reiter) Did you apply the Pliobond to both surfaces, let the Pliobond dry to the touch, heat the ferrule and the Pliobond inside the ferrule and slide the ferrule in place? Let dry for a couple of days. After 12 hours the ferrule will still move a bit. After a couple of days it should be stuck forever. Did you see in the paper that they have found JFK's lost PT Boat? I would not be surprised if the metal (copper?) sheathing is still stuck to the hull. They used Pliobond. By the way, when I glue Featherweight brand anodized aluminum ferrules, such as used on Paul Young Midges and some Perfectionists and perhaps others, I have found that Pliobond is the best bonding agent. It is what Paul Young used and what Bob Summers continues to use. The rod Bob completed for me this Spring still wreaks of Pliobond around the reel seat. (Chris Lucker)
After gluing my ferrules on, I was very careful to remove excess glue, but after binding them down, it forced a bit more glue out of the serrations and ultimately onto the tabs. The ferrules are blued so are there any tricks to removing the dried glue without removing the bluing? (Paul McRoberts) Don't worry about it, tape off the ferule just above the shoulder and steel wool the glue off, then reblue that part. The problem I've had with using solvents is that it can get under the tabs and dissolve the bond there. As long as you make the transition at a step in the ferrule it will blend in with the rest of it. Bluing won't hurt the bamboo, unless your using sulfuric acid. (John Channer)
Having a bear of a time fitting new ferrules per the instructions here. Fitting was not a problem, I measured the stations correctly and ordered the correct size, dry fitting went flawlessly. I'm having a problem cementing the butt ferrule and getting it to stick. The tip ferrule is installed. I have applied, and flamed the Pliobond 3 times and succeeded in pulling the butt ferrule back off twice when trying to position the guides. I understand the procedure of flaming the Pliobond to make adhesion almost immediate, am I missing something? (Chuck Pickering) First, make sure clean the cane and the inside of the ferrule with a solvent like acetone, and let it dry completely. If not completely dry, the solvent will stop the Pliobond from adhering. Brush the Pliobond on to the bamboo, and use a Q-tip to swab the inside of the ferrule with Pliobond too. Immediately hit the glue with a flame (from a lighter) until the naptha "flashes off". The ferrule will be slightly warm, allowing you to slide it home. Let it cool, and it should be rock solid. If you didn't get the ferrule seated all the way, gently re-heat it with the flame and slide it all the way home. (Chris Obuchowski) I'm not sure from your description what the problem is but could it be that you didn't cut grooves for the air and excess glue to escape when sliding it in place? The built up pressure would prevent you from getting it to seat properly. If that's not the problem, then toss the pliobond and get some epoxy. (Bill Oyster) As it is my first ferrule set, I guess I was impatient, 3rd time was the charm. Ferrules are on, guides temporarily affixed, and yard cast in the dark and rain moments ago... Rod does not quite respond as I thought it would, it's only 5' 7", and I just stuck a 5wt line on it for a quick test. I'll have to experiment with other lines. (Chuck Pickering)
What I've been hearing from you and some other folks is that the usual solvents (naptha, MEK, turps, mineral spirits, lacquer thinner or alcohol) are all good for some things, but that none of them can give a ferrule the final film-cleaning that we really need. Is that true? Harry Boyd suggested ScotchBrite as the final application, but how can that product actually remove anything? It's just another kind of abrasive material, but it isn't absorbent, so wouldn't it just move stuff around? What do you suggest as our last preparation before gluing? (Bill Harms) My suggestion is to use a solvent to remove oils. A wipe with a wetted Q-Tip should remove most. If you used four Q-tips you would successively reduce the oil concentration to an acceptable level. Mineral Spirits is cheap, effective and least toxic. To go the extra mile, moisten a Q-Tip with some liquid detergent and vigorously scrub the complete inside of the ferrule. Follow with a Q-Tip wetted with water. Then thoroughly rinse the ferrule with hot water. Dry with compressed air. Now abrade the inside with ScotchBrite or 600 grit Wet/Dry sandpaper. I prefer the Wet/Dry because of the sharper silicon carbide abrasive particles. Blow out with compressed air again and you're ready to glue. Reasoning:
In Harry's defense, if you've cleaned the ferrule with generous doses of solvent, there is little oil left. What may remain will come out, to some extent, because the abrasive is removing metal, therefore the oil on it. But, yes, it's just one more dilution step. It does have the benefit of almost doubling the surface area for the adhesive to grab onto. (Al Baldauski) Yes, of course. I think I was missing your point (well, Harry's too) when I assumed that abrading would come first, with cleaning coming last. But, apparently, you're recommending things the other way around. (Bill Harms) The original article on proper bonding is here. It describes what he believes will produce the best bonding conditions when gluing. I now use this method but I have had to stop gluing with epoxy for ferrules because now in order to break the bond for a repair I end up destroying the cane beneath the ferrule because it just won't come apart other wise. (Ken Paterson)
What are you guys using for gluing on ferrules? I just had my first failure on a rod with my ferrules & it was with Golf Shafting Epoxy. (Bret Reiter) I had a failure with epoxy on a ferrule then switched to Pliobond or equivalent and had no problems. What you need is a rather flexible adhesive because as the rod goes thru seasonal changes the bamboo expands and contracts as much as 0.005” in a #13 ferrule. If you fit the ferrule in humid weather everything is OK until winter comes and the boo dries out and shrinks. It then pulls away from the inside of the ferrule and if the glue isn’t “stretchy” (epoxy isn’t) you will lose the bond. I think that if you fit the ferrule in dry conditions then expose it to humid weather the boo tries to expand but the metal ferrule wont’ let it (at least not as much as it would like). The boo then takes a “set”, matching the ID of the ferrule so at the next dry spell it shrinks away, now smaller than you started. Think about what happens to a piece of pine that you’ve clamped “hard” then released the clamp. The clamp mark never recovers. (Al Baldauski) You said Pliobond or equivalent. What is an example of an equivalent? I'm asking because I also use Pliobond and my normal source for it no longer carries it and has said that they will order it and it will be here on a certain date and it is not and they reorder and at this point I have been waiting two weeks and I would like to get these ferrules mounted. (Hal Manas) WeldWood makes a solvent-based contact cement that seems to be the same as Pliobond. (Al Baldauski) This is what I have always used for my ferrules (U-40 Rod Bond), it dries to a somewhat flexible plastic like finish. The two parts are a gel like substance which you mix 50/50 cleans up with alcohol. I simply use a 1/8 teaspoon measure which I scoop full and then scrape the spoonful flat or level with something like a razor blade. This has a very long working time and has served me well for my entire building career. I don't know about the shelf life but I have never thrown any out just use it up and order more. I'm talking the jars last for years. It is available in many places such as Anglers Workshop etc. (Joe Arguello)
I have been lurking around this site for a couple of years. I thought it was time to reveal myself since I now have enough experience to have some questions. You know, the more you know the more you realize you don’t know. I live in south central Indiana near Louisville, Kentucky on a small lake where I can try out my rods on bass and bluegill. I bought my first bamboo rod in 1990. I was looking for a hobby to occupy some free time since my three children are out of college and on their own and I’m trying to slow down a bit at work. I initially thought of making pool cues, but those makers were not interesting in sharing their knowledge. I then took a class with Lon Blauvelt in Maine and discovered rodmaking was something that I was able to do. At the time I did not have room for a shop but when we moved a few years ago I added some space for a workshop. I then spent a couple of weeks with George Maurer, acquired some tools and began making some rods. I now have my fourth and fifth rods varnished and ready to wrap. My sixth is rough planed and in the oven. I just split my seventh and am ready to straighten nodes. One is a college graduation present for a nephew and two are his and hers rods for a wedding gift. One thing I admire about bamboo rods makers is your willingness to share ideas. I have learned so much on this site. I do have a few of questions now that I have a little experience. I have blued some hardware. I have been pinning ferrules (I don’t mean to start that debate again!). When I file the pins down, I invariably scratch some of the bluing off. I have been redipping the ferrules but the pins and the scratches take the stain differently and are obvious. Any ideas on what to do to keep the bluing on the ferrules looking nicer? I flame a culm, then split and then file some of the more prominent nodal rings down (on a wooden jig I learned about on this site). I then have a lighter area of bamboo where I have filed the bamboo which then shows up on the finished blank. How could that be avoided? Or maybe that makes the finished blanks more interesting? I recently fit a winding check on a rod and had a gap in the cork handle. I guess I just reamed out the cork handle too far. What do you use to enlarge the inner diameter of the cork handle to accommodate the bamboo and now what do I do with this unsightly gap? Any tricks to getting a ferrule seat completely when gluing it in place. My ferrules fit well but when I go to glue them in, they don’t seem to fit all the way in? Any help would be appreciated. (Guy Silva) It sounds like you’re get A LOT of glue trapped in the ferrule and which fills the space the bamboo is supposed to fit into preventing the ferrule from sliding on all the way. Score the ferrule mounting area on the bamboo to allow a small channel for the excess glue to flow out and/or use less glue. Mark the bamboo so you know when the ferrule is fully engaged and press very firmly until the excess oozes out and you’ve reached your mark. (Al Baldauski) Blue your ferrules after you have them installed and pinned. Just mask off the cane and dip the ferrule. I have done this for many years. As far as your ferrule not going all the way on, you need to make a slight groove in the cane at the ferrule station to let the air out. Otherwise, the ferrule will not go all the way down. It works like a gas shock on a car. You push it down and it wants to come back up. (Dave LeClair) I have blued some hardware. I have been pinning ferrules (I don’t mean to start that debate again!). When I file the pins down, I invariably scratch some of the bluing off. I have been redipping the ferrules but the pins and the scratches take the stain differently and are obvious. Any ideas on what to do to keep the bluing on the ferrules looking nicer? I then have a lighter area of bamboo where I have filed the bamboo which then shows up on the finished blank. How could that be avoided? Or maybe that makes the finished blanks more interesting? File or sand the nodes down before flaming. Or use a Minwax stain pen in Dark Walnut just before varnishing the blank. Some thoughts: Maybe try bluing the ferrules on the blank after the pin has been put in. Use a Q-tip to apply the bluing solution. I use Oxpho Blue and have to make three applications to get the color I like. Light nodes on a flamed blank are to be expected. You might try filing down the nodes all around the culm before you flame and they will be less prominent, darker. On cork handles, I ream the center holes before glue up on a steel rod of the approximate diameter. My gluing rods are three-eighths and 5/16 diameter. You usually do not need to do much reaming to make the grip fit the blank. Not sure what to do with the gap behind the winding check. Maybe mix up some cork dust and white glue and fill in. It will be noticeable I'm sure but not as bad as doing nothing. A glue relief grove in the ferrule station will help move the glue out from the ferrule. On real stubborn ones, I take a cigarette lighter and apply some heat to the ferrule as I am pushing it onto the rod. It usually seats quite rapidly with a little heat. (Larry Myhre) If you file the nodes close before you flame them they will darken with the flaming (they seem to darken a little more without the enamel), by the time you straighten the nodes and do whatever else needed they will be lighter than from the flaming, this seems to be matched by the lighter colour of the rest of the strip after you take the enamel off after flaming.
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