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Is there any disadvantage (strength, lifetime...) other than perhaps classic looks to aluminum ferrules vs. Nickel Silver?  And for the metallurgist among us, is there a problem make an aluminum ferrule plug to fit into a NS ferrule?   (Taylor Hogan)

The problem with aluminum ferrules is that the oxides that form gall the parts so that they wear quickly. If the bearing surfaces were coated with something, they would be  a good choice. Nickel silver (752) is still the best available compromise for ferrules.  (John Zimny)

There is a lot of discussion on this in the achieves but as usual there is no definitive answer.

To be brief, NS seems the best cost/lifetime/pleasurable materiel to use.

It's easy to keep bright or darken, it's reasonably easy to get, reasonably easy to machine or solder or draw depending on what the maker does.  Very importantly it doesn't tend to corrode.

Darryl Hayashida is into making Aluminum ferrules and a couple of names made them also so they can't be all that bad. They'd be very easy to machine.

NS is a type of bronze anyhow (white or silver bronze just like a Dime) but apart from NS there have been makers use various red bronzes.  I've made them from a few different red bronzes and like NS best of all from every point of view apart from looks. I like phosphor bronze best for looks but it's hard to dress and no matter how well it's dressed it always seems to be sticky at the end of a day's fishing.

I really wouldn't mix metals  like use an Al plug with an NS ferrule. I haven't tried it because I wouldn't. If there was much moisture about the two dissimilar metals would corrode from the effects of air moisture and any salts left on the ferrule from evaporation of stream water and the Al would become impossible to remove from the ferrule (I'd think).  (Tony Young)

I've been making/using/testing aluminum ferrules for 6 months now, here are a few of my observations:

AL is a lot easier to machine, a lot easier to find rod stock in all the sizes you might need, and a lot cheaper - a 6 foot rod is less than $20.00 (US), and it weighs about a third that a same sized NS ferrule would weigh.  Corrosion is a bit of a problem with some AL alloys, I haven't had corrosion problems with 6262 or 7075 alloy. The 6262 remains bright the longest, has a bit of a self lubricating property (it contains a small percentage of lead and bismuth), 7075 is harder and stronger. Choose the characteristics that are more important to you. Neither one has failed on me.

I found that rounding the inside lip of the female and the leading edge of the male cuts down on sticking a lot. Polishing the inside of the female helps also. What I do is burnish the inside of the female side with  antisieze compound.  I swab the inside with a Q-tip loaded with the antisieze compound, heat it slightly with a heat gun while spinning it on my lathe, then use a smaller brass rod to rub the inside wall. What I think (hope) is happening is the little microscopic pores are filling with the antisieze compound and then the burnishing is folding the peaks over the pores, sort of locking it in. Anyway, my AL ferrules have been working smoothly for this fishing season,  none of them has stuck, and AL doesn't have the "growing" phenomena I get with freshly fitted NS. I can't attest to the long term performance yet.  (Darryl Hayashida)

Now that Aluminum Ferrules have been mentioned and the seal is broken, I was wondering if any one of you have experimented with ferrules made with composite materials like Kevlar and I won't say the word, Carbon fiber fabrics hardened with resins. The Idea I was toying with is to use the finished tip blank as a mandrel to wrap very thin composite fabric to taper into a male ferrule, remove that, autoclave, and finish that and then use that and the butt section as a combined mandrel to form the female. The insides would fit the hex perfectly and be tapered finely to accommodate the finish wrap.  (Shane Pinkston)

It was either the most recent planing form, or the one before that, that featured an article regarding how to make your own graphite ferrules for bamboo rods.

Fiberglass works too (Jeff Walker from Winston has two rods with fiberglass ferrules at the Corbett Lake gathering in 2000).  (Chris Obuchowski)

There are a couple of UK builders who use glass fiber ferrules on their bamboo rods......(Paul Blakley)

This morning I made a couple of  ferrules from Alloy 6061 Aluminum.  It certainly turns easier than nickel silver.  I can't seem to get the nice polished finish that I can get on nickel silver using a progression of 220, 320, 400, 600, 1500 papers.  Is it possible to polish this alloy and if so, what do you use?  (Mark Lenarz)

What I suggest is forget about the 220 and the 320 paper. Use a super slow feed rate and a HSS cutting tool. This will give you a very good surface. Next start with 600 paper and then 1500 paper and finish polishing with a paper towel. Paper towels are good for polishing aluminum to a fine finish.  (Adam Vigil)

I've found that a product available in most Auto stores (in the USA) called Mother's Mag Wheel Polish does a good job, but really any aluminum polish will work. I've also used a polish called Blue Magic. It did a good job also. Read the label and make sure it says it will work on aluminum.  (Darryl Hayashida)

P.S. Nothing wrong with 6061 alloy, but I like 6262 better. It has a little lead and bismuth in the alloy and slides together and apart easier. Also polishes better.

My machinist friend told me to use denatured spirit as lubricant when polishing Al, works very well.  (Danny Twang)

Try wax car polish on a rag.  (Robin Haywood)

In the pedal steel guitar world, we use lots of 6061 T6 aluminum polished to a mirror finish. We polish it this way, in order from heaviest cutting to finest polishing:

Flitz or Simichrome with a soft rag. (I think Flitz cuts a bit more than Simichrome)  CAREFUL WITH PAPER TOWELS -- THEY SCRATCH  (Chris Lucker)

I just finished making a ferrule out of 642 Aluminum Bronze alloy. It was more difficult to machine than Naval Brass, but not prohibitively so. It machines fairly easily with carbide tools, it is slower to drill and ream, but the biggest difference was in trying to cut it with a hack saw. That was slow going. It is noticeably lighter than brass or NS, not greatly but there is a difference. The metal gives me the impression that it is more durable - at least harder - than NS. I guess I'll have to put it on a rod and test it out.  (Darryl Hayashida)

You know the best thing about NS for ferrules is it is readily available, good looking, has a hundred year track record and is perfect for the job. The cost for a barstock set of ferrules is about $1.85 in NS so cost is not an issue. I have messed around with some aluminum, brass, bronze and so one but NS is still king.  (Adam Vigil)

Agree 100% Unless you can't get NS because it's as if it was made for the job. I can't see the point in messing about unless you're looking for a different look.  (Tony Young)

Aluminum is a third the weight of NS. In a two piece rod that doesn't matter much, but in a multi piece rod it might make a difference. Especially in 5 or more piece rods. The type of fishing I like to do takes some hiking, and I'm going for portability, but trying not to affect castability too much. And yes it is a different look I am after with bronze ferrules. Most of my rods are flamed and I think bronze - after it has oxidized a bit - looks better on a flamed rod.  (Darryl Hayashida)

My experience is 5 piece rods are a novelty, 4 pieces rods are a compromise, 3 piece rods are OK, 2 piece rods are nice and one piece rods are the best.  (Adam Vigil)

I think I completed my testing of different aluminum alloys for ferrules, or I have completed testing unless I come across a different alloy that looks good.  I tried 4032,  6061, 6262, and 7075. They all make acceptable ferrules. 4032 and 6061 are a little on the weak side as far as tensile strength and yield strength, but I think the bamboo would break before the ferrules do. 6262 contains a bit of bismuth and lead, making it easier to machine, and giving it a little self lubricating properties. Tensile and yield strengths are just a bit under half hard tempered NS and hardness is similar.

But, I am giving the nod to 7075 for ferrules I will make from now on. Tensile and yield strengths are the same or greater than half hard NS. Hardness is greater. Machining is harder than 6262, but that's rating it against other aluminums. Compared to NS, 7075 is a breeze to machine. The advantages to using aluminum are the weight - one third the weight of NS, and the ease of machining. So far I have not seen any minuses to using aluminum over NS. I was told that aluminum rubbing on itself - as in the engagement slide portion of a ferrule would gall or stick together. I'm sure that does happen in other applications, but frankly, I just have not seen it happen at all with a ferrule yet. Perhaps it is because I am only using the harder alloys. 6061 is the softest I tried at 95 Brinnell. 7075 is 150 Brinell.

All my personal rods will have aluminum ferrules from now on, and I wouldn't hesitate to put them on a rod I sell if the client doesn't insist on NS.  (Darryl Hayashida)

The only minus I can think of for aluminum would be oxidation (aluminum oxide is white and powdery) unless you anodize.  Is that a problem with 7075?  (George Bourke)

7075 will have a bad habit of stress cracking as it oxidizes with time.  It would not be bad if the temper was up at t8 or so but the at t5 any pitting will lead to a stress raiser and finally to failure.  Same goes for the 2023 or 2024 in the lower end of the temper range t3 t4.  (Brad Love)

7075 is what is used for carabiners and other mountaineering hardware. It's made at T1 or T2 then hardened to T6.

It is said to be pretty easy to crack if dropped from a height so any carabiner that is dropped from a cliff should be discarded though they're normally sold to some unsuspecting poor climber. Interestingly the biners never do seem to fail so the actual failure due to impact while potential doesn't seem to really happen in use. I agree with Brad in thinking they may crack due to work hardening though. I experimented with making carabiners myself years ago and they failed well under specs if  they weren't tumbled to remove dimples etc. on the surface, these made a very big difference and tumbling was something that had to be done if I wanted to get the right performance from them. Ferrules may well be the same and any pitting that takes place will behave just like dimples and machine marks left on the ferrules.

Also, 7075 is not in the least bit resistant to saline water and will begin to corrode immediately. Even though you may expect to only use the rod around fresh water I would think there would be enough mineralization in the water to have an accumulative effect especially in the inside of the female.

I haven't tried Al for ferrules but I'd be inclined to use 4000 series rather than 6000 or 7000 series.  (Tony Young)

I have had a few rods, admittedly they were inexpensive production rods, that had what looked like aluminum ferrules on them. What grade would they have been made from? The ferrules on an H-I Tonka Queen look like aluminum, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure that they might not have the same life as N/S but (IMHO) might be worth looking at for weight reduction,  even if the useful life is only about 30-40 years.  (Bill Walters)

Those are factors that only time  will reveal,  and I look at it this way - as much as I get to go fishing it's got to be at least 25 years. The temper of the 7075 stuff I got is T651. 6262 is supposed to have better corrosion resistance, so if corrosion does become a problem with 7075, I can always use 6262.  (Darryl Hayashida)

Has anyone machined and or used bronze ferrules?

I don't like to consider this too heavily in my rod making but it would strictly be for cosmetic purposes.  (Kyle Druey)

I've made quite a few from phosphor bronze which from what I can tell may well be the same stuff that has been called "durabronze".  It's properties are pretty similar to silicon bronze but it's not as hard to machine. My main use for it has been to use it for keel bolts in lead keels as well as any bolt I have to make for my boat. Silicon bronze is generally used for places where very hard wearing properties are required such as engine shafts though if it's available at the same sort of price in your locale there is no reason not to use it for everything.

Don't forget NS is a bronze, any bronze with more than 5% nickel will be silver to look at. There are two negatives I found with it. One is it takes a little longer to dress the male to fit the other is the ferules are a little harder to part at the end of the day. There is one other negative and it's one that is something you either don't care about or find a problem and that is you can't keep the reel seat hardware bright to match the ferrules if they are kept bright by covering them with varnish. The ferrules if bright look terrific (IMHO) but the dull reel seat doesn't match and I know of no way of keeping the reel seat hardware bright without a lot of trouble buffing it all the time and you can't buff the knurling if there is any on the screw or the thread. In (not very much) time it'll look like a used 1 cent coin. Of course you allow the ferrules to dull to match the reel seat hardware and there is no problem. Personally I like the dull color but that's a personal thing.

If you choose to allow the ferrules to dull you don't need to blue them to take away the flash.  (Tony Young)

Regarding the 6061, you may want to try to find 6061 with a T6 heat treatment which I have used in the past a great deal for all sorts of things (admittedly not ferrules - yet).  We used it for very  very high performance yacht masts - thin walled tube required to bend over its length with lots of shock loads.  It never failed through material failure only through designing it just that nth degree to far. I will try some 7075 here.  I am assuming that you are slightly increasing the wall thickness over brass or NS is that a safe assumption?  (Tim Watson)

None of the aluminum alloys I tried, including 6061, had anything that I would say made them unsuitable for ferrules. The corrosion factor I can't evaluate until some time has passed, but dipping them in water and letting them dry on a counter top or dropping them in a glass of water  for a couple days hasn't produced anything pitting or corrosion yet. I figure that's fairly close to what would happen to ferrules on a trout rod. For 7075 I didn't increase wall thickness over the NS ferrule I have, but for the other alloys I did. 7075 has the same tensile and yield strengths as half hard tempered NS, so I didn't see any reason to increase wall thickness. Maybe the other alloys don't need it either. Something to try......(Darryl Hayashida)

When making ferrules out of aluminum, do you use same dimensions as if they were  made from Nickel Silver?

I have acquired some 6262 Aircraft grade Aluminum (whatever that is). Is that what I should use for ferrules?  (Carsten Jorgensen)

Yes, I use the same dimensions for Aluminum as I do for Nickel Silver.  Well, this statement really doesn't make much sense since I haven't made any any Nickel Silver ferrules. I guess what I should say is that I use the same measurement chart to make Aluminum ferrules that was originally for Nickel Silver ferrules.

6262 is aluminum alloyed with the usual metals to make it stronger, plus a little bit of lead and bismuth. The lead and bismuth is put in the mix to make it easier to machine, but for us it gives the added benefit of making it not gall or stick when rubbed together as in the male side of the ferrule sliding into the female side. After much testing with different alloys of aluminum I have convinced myself that for ferrules 6262 alloy gives me the best characteristics and more than enough strength.  (Darryl Hayashida)

Interesting comment on the leaded alloy helping prevent galling. It make a lot of sense. I am wondering what your experience has been with oxidation from exposure to the atmosphere. I assume the marine and aircraft alloys are pretty good, but don't have experience with anything like ferrules, where a little bit can cause problems.   (Tom Smithwick)

No problems yet, but I have only been making them for a year and a half. I also live in a place with a fairly dry climate, and I store all my rods in a rod tube (PVC pipe mostly) with desiccant. I have never used a rod with an aluminum ferrule in salt water yet.  (Darryl Hayashida)

A couple things I found helps tremendously with Aluminum ferrules (and probably Nickel Silver ferrules, but I haven't actually made any Nickel Silver ferrules yet) is to slightly bevel the inside lip of the female side and slightly round the front edge of the male side. This eliminates almost all sticking and hanging up problems. Polishing the inside surface of the female side is a big help also.  (Darryl Hayashida)

I understand using Aluminum for ferrules to try to save a weight. But let's be honest were are using cane rods if weight is the most important issue for a rod we would be using graphite.  I make ferrules from nickel silver and the weight is not an issue, especially if the rod taper is correct for making it a 3 piece.

Nickel Silver is cheap for a 5/16" rod this will let you make size 14 and under. If you are making larger ferrules I can see were the weight becomes an issue. But I make trout rods 15 and under I am good with the tried and true.  (Adam Vigil)

The weight savings isn't for the overall weight of the rod. The weight savings is to reduce the moment of inertia of the mass of the ferrule during casting. I'm not saying Aluminum should replace Nickel Silver ferrules, but Aluminum is great in making a two piece rod into a four piece pack rod. A two piece rod with only one ferrule won't benefit very much by using Aluminum over Nickel Silver, but I've found the two piece taper does not have to be changed when making it into a four piece if Aluminum ferrules are used. But I must admit since I have a lot of Aluminum rod lying around I usually use Aluminum for my two piece rods also.

I have found Aluminum rod stock to be more readily available in different lengths and diameters (1/8th inch to several inches if you want it that thick), and cheap. A six foot long rod is usually only around several dollars to $20.00 depending on diameter and what alloy I get.

I like to experiment, to try different techniques, different processes, different materials. If we don't push the envelope we will never advance.  (Darryl Hayashida)

I'm with Darryl on this one. Anything you can do to reduce ferrule weight make a noticeable difference in performance. I think his experiments are very important. Yes, I know you can compensate for ferrule weight by  adding more cane below the ferrule. As far as I'm concerned, it's like putting a 500 HP engine in a bread truck. It may go fast, but you are still driving a bread truck.   (Tom Smithwick)

I vaguely remember a thread about using aluminum for ferrules but can't find it and would like to know what the designation for the aluminum is. Would this be appropriate for reel seats too.  (Barry Mayer)

I use aluminum reel seats because they're more corrosion resistant than nickel silver & hold up better for saltwater use.  (Tom Bowden)

I have tried a few aluminum alloys, 4032, 6061, 6262, and 7075. 4032 has silicon and nickel and is a little harder, 6061 and 7075 are what they call "aircraft" aluminum and are really strong. I use 6262 alloy. It has a little bit of lead and bismuth in the mix and is a little "self lubricating" and avoids galling with a friction fit as with a application like a ferrule.  Check out the properties at www.mcmaster.com Put "aluminum" in the search box.  (Darryl Hayashida)

I found the Aluminum 6262 at McMaster-Carr but the smallest size is 3/8 which is 24/64. $14 for 6' sounds good but I wanted to know if anyone has found some that is smaller to cut down on so much cutting. I also wanted to thank Darryl Hayashida for sharing his research on ferrules and alloys. It is so good to have someone on the cutting edge in this area.  (David Ray)

The stuff cuts like butter when turned, you can easily hog off 0.030 per pass with the tool bit.  (Kyle Druey)

I would like to make an aluminum ferrule using Thomas Ausfeld's directions and dimensions. These directions are for nickel silver. Can I simply use aluminum or should I change any dims (e.g. increase wall thickness) to compensate for the softer material?  (Stephen Dugmore)

When I have made aluminum ferrules I doubled the wall thickness of the female ferrule since aluminum has roughly half the strength of nickel silver.  I figured that the male ferrule was just a sheathing and not subject to the same bending stress as the female so I left the wall the same as with NS.  I don't know what dimension you are using but I used the Super Z specs and this procedure has worked well so far.  (Kyle Druey)

One of the things I wanted to do with my retirement is to get to know my lathe better. I recently got some alloy 642 rod, and have played around with it a bit. I find I can drill and ream it pretty well, but it is a little rough to turn. I can take light cuts in the .005/.010 range pretty smoothly, but heavy cuts get rough. I have tried some different tool shapes and side rake angles, but nothing stands out. Does anyone have experience with turning this material. I'm working with 3/8" rod at about 400 RPM.  (Tom Smithwick)

It all depends!!! :)

You should run at about 100 -200  surface feet per minute which for 3/8 stock will be about 1000-2000 RPM. Your feed rate will depend on the type of tool your using but a good bet for rough cutting will be about 0.010 inches/rev.  Less when you're finishing.

If this doesn't work out for you, look into one of the problems above.  (Al Baldauski)

A follower rest would help, also using a live center in the tailstock. I'd try higher rpm also, and some coolant might be in order.  (Neil Savage)

I run the lathe a bit faster than normal and use cutting oil.  (Tony Spezio)

I use a indexable cutter with a bit for light metal (aluminum, titanium). It's sintered and I use a coolant. The coolant is not necessary,  but it saves the bit a bit.  I can easily take of 0.5 to 1 mm. Cutting speed about 1000-1500.  (Tom Simarud)

I forgot, you need the bit to be super sharp, or else it gets hairy!  (Tom Simarud)

First off, crank up your spindle speed, bronze is very forgiving of high surface footage. 11-1200 RPM should work fine.

Next make sure you have a SHARP, high positive rake cutting tool. With bronze you want to get under the chip with a high sheer angle. Also make sure your tool's height is perfectly centered.

Make a stainless or mild steel rod that will fit tightly inside the bore and run in a live center on the other end. That will keep the material from flexing away from the cutter. Now take a big cut and crank the feed up. .004-.008 per rev is a good place to start. For finishing keep your surface footage way up and take a very small cut at a slower feed rate.

Lastly, don't worry about rough heavy cuts as long as you have enough stock to clean up. If the material is galling to the tool or not cutting freely sharpen you tool again.  Also pick  up a can of A-9 cutting fluid. Pour some in a small cup and use an acid brush to spread it on the material before you make a cut.  (Mark Shamburg)

May I pick your brain for a moment?  I'm a trial-and-error sort of lathe user.  Is there a simple, foolproof method for making sure one's cutter height is perfectly centered.  Sure seems to me that there should be some sort of common sense way of doing it rather than just "eyeballing" the height of the cutter against the point of the live center.  (Harry Boyd)

The "old timers" way was to pinch a steel rule between the cutter and the work.  If the rule is vertical, the cutter is centered.  Of course, you can make a cutter height gauge and use it when you change cutters.  See number one at the bottom of this page.  (Neil Savage)

Excellent resource, thanks Neil!  (Mark Shamburg)

Thanks to all who replied. The issue was the speed, For some reason I was thinking 40-100 SFM for this stuff. It definitely likes to go faster. I'm sure I still have something to learn about tool shapes, but I got through the process OK this afternoon.  (Tom Smithwick)

I've got two anodized aluminum, probably spinning rod, ferrules in front of me now. They are anodized bronze color likely Fenwick that Bill Stroud in San Diego gave me a few years ago.  All surfaces are anodized inside and out. They rely on a rubber O-ring at the end of the male that goes into the female first and a short taper at the full depth end that matches a similar short taper on the inside of the female mouth end. So the male starts into the hole with the O-ring taking up clearance (about a half to a full thou metal to metal). There is some wobble in the ferrule match until it full seated and then the short tapers make contact and it firms up. Incidentally both these ferrule sets have a 1/64" drop across the ferrule from but to tip. No water stop.

first larger set  Female is 22/64 ID,  Male is 21/64" ID.

smaller set     Female is 18/64" ID and male is 17/64" ID.

Like I mentioned before there is no metal to metal contact until the short tapers meet.  The tapers appear to be about 1/8" long and fairly steep.  Looking at the taper on the male it appears similar to a 5C collet.  Short and steep so it doesn't lock.

I'm not saying that I would use one of these on a bamboo fly rod, just that that's the way THESE commercial aluminum ferrules work.  (Larry Swearingen)

That’s an interesting approach.  I would have thought, though, that the taper would tend to cause the male to work out of the female as you wave the rod back and forth.  (Al Baldauski)

You're absolutely correct. Once a taper fit 'breaks loose'  there's no metal to metal contact at all.  Probably with the 'O' ring there's be considerable rattling before the parts completely parted company.  Some author (Herter?) makes this point in his ramblings.  (Vince Brannick)

Yes, but I don't think it is worth a second thought.  I built a rod with one of those ferrules described, and the male tip broke off at the O ring inside of the female. Sort of ruined the rod. (Ralph Moon)

I have never used these type ferrules.  I don't know if they would work loose on a fly rod or not.  They were most likely for use on a spinning or bait casting rod.  I think they do a lot less "waving around" than we do.    {:>)   I think that the O-ring , which is a tight fit, would tend to keep it all locked in place.  I don't know where you get an O-ring that stays in good shape over the years either.

I just checked in the garage for two old fiberglass spinning rods I still have.  They both have what appears to be nickel plated brass or NS ferrules.  A Garcia-Conolon and another that has the decal worn off, it's dull gold finished though.  The gold one I got on Okinawa at the Navy Exchange in the mid 60's, the Garcia I dunno.  (Larry Swearingen)

I had a great uncle that built a few glass spinning rods, probably 40 years ago. I have a couple sets of the alum ferrules with O rings from his stuff. Seeings how Uncle Bert did his best to keep Herters in the black, I'm sure that is where they came from. I still have one of his rods and have replaced the O rings twice and still use it now and then.   (Tom Kurtis)

I used this type ferrule when rebuilding a real junk bamboo rod in 1972.  It worked fine until the bamboo finally broke, but that had nothing top do with the ferrule, it just doesn't belong on a bamboo rod.

Ray Gould's first book, Constructing Cane Rods, pg 20, top right corner show eight different ferrules. The bottom one, labeled "Ferrulite" looks to be one of these.  Note there are no serrations.  (Roland Cote)

Winston rods/ferrules are not serrated either. . .not since Lew Stoner had the Duronze ferrule developed. . .if you read his old letters, he makes a good case for NOT serrating ferrules (simply thin out the shaft end of the ferrule sufficiently that when you seat the ferrule it  swags hexagonal onto the rod shaft).  (Chris Obuchowski)

I have a very old big glass fly rod with aluminum ferrules as Larry describes. It served me very well over many years of steelhead and salmon fishing and is still in good shape to fish.  (Bill Fink)

I want to make a set of aluminum ferrules for a rod design I am working on and was wondering for those of you that make your own, what alloy would you suggest?  I make mine out of duronze normally, but this set is more for function than anything and making them out of a cheap alumnium would serve the purpose in case the rod does not work out as planned and besides, aluminum cuts like butter and would be quicker.  I was thinking 6061, but not sure if there is a (lightly more duable alloy out there I could use.  I'm just not familiar with the others. (Scott Bahn)

I would skip trying aluminum as it will more than likely gall. Brass cuts like butter and would be a better choice, in my opinion. (Don Green)

Keep in mind that aluminium galls about as badly as anything can. The co-efficient of friction non lubricated between Al and Al is about 1.3 compared, a car tire on a dry road surface is 1.0 and brass against steel is 0.35 that's very sticky when it's stickier than a car tire against a road.

But anyhow:

Basing everything on T6 heat treating or similar;

In the aerospace industry 2024 is marginally stronger and used as sheet a lot for pressed parts and skins and can be machined of course but 6061 is more easily machined and is a bit more corrosion resistant than 2024. 2024 is not held to be as good as 6061 when it comes to cyclic loading.

5000 series is used a fair bit in the automotive industry, here in Australia 4WD or SUV vehicles look naked without what's called a bull bar that's said to be there to protect the car from animal strike on country roads but with few exceptions it's actually just a phallic symbol in the front of the car and a mounting point for spot lights and they use 5059 for this.

They don't strengthen this by heat treating because it's intended to be cold formed and that hardens it by strain hardening or cold working it. So this isn't T6. If you were brave it may be worth a try because it's designed to work but how far will it continue to work beyond what you want in a ferrule is the question. I've machined it and it's OK but you need a lot of kerro or whatever you prefer to keep it running smoothly. 6061 would be better so I don't know that I'd bother.

We used 7075 for carabiners and machined shafts of other gizmos in rock climbing gear but it's also used a lot in struts etc in aircraft, arrow shafts, hang gliders etc.

This grade of aluminium isn't too different in many ways to steel as far as strength goes weight for weight but steel is stronger in cross section of course but if you asked which is stronger, 1kg of 7075 or 1kg of steel they'd be sort of close.

Carabiners came out of the tumbler looking great because it polishes nicely.

If you wanted to try something other than 6061 this one may be worth a go. Not certain how it would go with cyclic loads though. (Tony Young)

Um, Tony, what do you mean "Which is stronger, kilo of aluminium or a kilo of steel"? Sort of eludes me....

And believe me, if you drive what I drive, and on country roads, and have several thousand dollars’ worth of intercooler sitting just about where you hit the wombats, you put on a purpose-designed bar in an attempt to nudge them aside.

I used to have a Phillipson Smuggler, but I gave it away to a friend. These were only built in 1952, and this one had been hard used at least until I was given it in the early 2000's and still had the original aluminium ferrules, and they did not seem to be a problem.

Do we have any metallurgists out there who may know what it was likely that Bill Phillipson used?

I make the occasional aluminium ferrule when I need to replace one for someone, but I wouldn't have a clue what I use. I just toddle off to a friend with a big precision tool unit, and he just gives me a peculiar look and hands me the appropriate stuff. He gave me some diamond lathe tools one time to use on it, and it machined beautifully leaving a finish that practically looked polished - I couldn't believe it. (Peter McKean)

We at work have an engine frame made of chrome molly steel tube with wall thickness of only 0.050".

The aircraft with this engine frame is citified to be able to recover from a 4G drive meaning that the engine frame must be able to stand a 6 TON loading of the engine under 4G forces. There are only 4 major struts to the assembly.

A chrome molly engine frame weighs almost nothing because it's so strong. You look at the thinness of the tube and you just shake your head in wonder at how strong this stuff is.

You could make it from aluminum but it would be hugely massive to carry the same forces.   

So it would entirely pointless making it from aluminum.

Say you have a steel bar 1M long of 20mm dia and you get the same length and *weight* in aluminium, the aluminium bar would be maybe 100mm or whatever, maybe a bit more. When you tried to bend them you'd likely find them to have similar resistance to bending.

If you did the same thing comparing a kg of steel with a kg of pure copper the diameters would be closer but the steel would be much, much stronger. I mention this because I agree that aluminum is strong. 

There are millions of alloys of various metals out there all designed for a purpose. Sometimes shoe horning a material into a job it's not ideal for isn't worth the effort. Sometimes a different material is a good alternative, you have to try. Aluminium is strong stuff, but you have to use a larger cross section of it to get the same strength as steel or more to the point for ferrules NS or bronze.

Sometimes steel (or bronze) is much stronger than you need it to be for the job but for practical purposes can't be made thinner. Perhaps ferrules fit into this category. If that's the case that means NS and bronze is heavier than it has to be for the job and it's then that aluminium *may* achieve the same purpose and save weight. This is when you look to al such as 6061 or 7075.  Find the right cross section for the stress it's required to handle and you have the problem solved. I imagine you COULD do the same thing with Plasticine if you really wanted to but aluminium has more going for it.

My question is what's the cross section required of aluminium to achieve this and if it has to be much thicker is it then much lighter than a NS ferrule?

And aluminium galls when self mated. And it doesn't like cyclic stress when it's thin which copper (NS, Bronze) is good at handling. NS ferrules crack often enough so Alum ferrules must as well, but how much more or less do they?

I know there were makers who used aluminium ferrules. I have to wonder why aluminium ferrules aren't used very often nor ever were very much even though there always was and is a holy grail type search for lighter ferrules. I saw the smuggler of which you speak, I've seen PHY rods with aluminum ferrules and you're right, they seem OK. So why didn't they keep using it?

I'm actually very interested in this. I have doubts but I may be wrong, so sue me. 

Nickel Aluminium Bronze is the future! (Tony Young)

Darryl Hayashida made ferrules from Aluminum. He recommended 6262 or 7075. I haven't seen 6262 at the online metals people I deal with, but 7075 should be available. Others have used aluminum, but I think Darryl was their best champion. I occasionally do a female from aluminum bronze with the male from 6062. They have worked fine for experiments that I don't want to spend a lot of money on. (Larry Lohkamp)

If you mix NS or Al bronze with the aluminium you wont get galling.

Didn't PHY do aluminum ferrules? What became of those? (Tony Young)

I have a boxful of them.  Ugly as a mud fence. (Harry Boyd)

If memory serves me well, T7075 is what Darryl Hayashida used for his Aluminum ferrules and he reported them as very successful.  (Ron Elder)