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I asked the list for advise on glue for reel seat caps.  I've had a couple come off after a a few years of use.  I received several replies, on and off list.

Recommended glues:

• Brownell's Acraglas Gel (what I had been using)
• Golf shafting epoxy
• JB Weld epoxy
• Polyurethane woodworking glue
• Pliobond
• Weldwood contact cement (flammable variety)

Surface preparation:

• degrease the cap (I have been doing this)
• remove varnish from filler (I have been doing this)
• roughen inside of cap (I have not been doing this.  I've heard both ways, that glue (epoxy in particular) adhears better to a smooth surface or to a rough surface.  A web search for "epoxy surface preparation" convinced me that the epoxy manufacturers recommend a rough surface, so that is what I'll use from now on.)

I did an experiment with all the glues above, except golf shafting epoxy which I could not obtain at the corner hardware store.  I quartered a 5/8 inch hardwood dowel and glued pieces into nickel silver caps.  The caps were degreased with Xylene, roughened with a rattail file, degreased again, and glued.  Clamps were rigged to hold the dowel tight to the cap.  Glues were left to cure for 1 week, then the cap and dowel were twisted back and forth until the glue gave way.

JB Weld was the strongest.  The wood broke before the bond.  The remaining glue inside the cap was difficult to remove without heat.

Polyurethane (Elmer's Probond)  and AcraGlas were about tied for second. Acraglas pulled from the cap, leaving just a few wood fibers behind. Poly separated in the glue itself, leaving a glue layer on the wood and on the cap.  I was surprised how strong the poly glue was.

Pliobond and Weldwood Contact were much weaker in this application.  (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive)

Just curious, what type of glue were you using before to glue on the reel seat caps?  (Mark Wendt)

I was using the Acraglas Gel.  (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive)

Thanks for the info Frank.  I think that about everybody has had at least one cap come off unless they are pinned.  I haven't had any come off on bamboo (using the golf shafting epoxy), but did in the past on graphite rods I built using other glues.

Is the JB Weld product just called "epoxy" or is the name more descriptive than that?  (Jerry Madigan)

JB weld is a relatively high temp epoxy that has a filler of metal filings, thickening the soup.  Makes it a real bear to sand, but gives the cured epoxy some distinct qualities, like being able to drill and tap well, and take quite a bit of stress.  I know of guys that have JB welded mounting lugs back on the their model airplane engines, and are still flying the same engines years later.  (Mark Wendt)

Thanks for your input.  This is the sort of information I want to see on the rod list.  Even though it is like finding a grain of salt in the sugar bowl, it is what makes it all worth while.  (Ralph Moon)

Well done!!  How many reel seat caps did you destroy in the process? <g>  Because of experiences similar to what you describe, I've begun to pin all my reel seats.  Even when I put together a graphite rod for a friend, I pin the reel seat to the filler.    I  also  pin  all  my  ferrules.  Why  take  chances?  (Harry Boyd)

No one has mentioned Devcon or Flex Coat epoxies.  Both are fairly easy to find, and Devcon is pretty cheap (any hardware store has it).  I may be ignorant, but I can't imagine any but cap actually going through the strain that would cause two part epoxy to fail.  However, maybe someone would want an adhesive that could come apart with a judicious application of heat.  I know I screwed up a beautiful ($75) Bellinger seat once because the seat hardware twisted when I set it down to cure.  Managed to smoke the wood pretty badly trying to take it apart, not to mention the blank.  I never did get the NS trim ring off.  (Jason Swan)

Devcon has done nothing but fail for me, both in ferrules and real seats. I reapplied all my failures with golf club shafting epoxy. That has held up well so far.  (Bill Bixler)

I noted in a previous response to this thread that after about 4 or 5 failures with Devcon I went to the golf club epoxy. I must also add that I did this all this winter and I have only fished one rod that was done with this epoxy. In conclusion, I cannot say it has been tested through the rigors of fishing yet to see how well it holds up. I can say that in the past it was highly recommended by other list members.  (Bill Bixler)

With the Pliobond did you flame it? Increase strength quite a bit. JB weld is very strong. Works good for ferrules to.  (Adam Vigil)

No I did not flame it.  I put a coat on each surface, let that try for an hour, then recoated and put the pieces together and clamped. I know you have to give it a week to cure, which I did.  I'll try the flame method when I have a chance.

I used to use Pliobond for all sorts of stuff (before I tried cane rod building).  It fixed a leaky gas tank on an old Volvo, that had resisted 3 professional repairs.  But 10 years or so ago they seemed to change the formula and I don't like it so much any more.  (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive)

OK, Frank; so what have you decided to use in the future?  (Jim Utzerath)

I'm using JB Weld for the time being.  I'm going to get some golf shaft epoxy and try that when I have a chance.  (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive)

I'm a beginner at this, but I was thinking after reading these notes, what if we make a beautiful rod that lasts a long time, a lot longer than us, and then sometime in the future someone has to replace the grip or the reel seat.  Can you get a reel seat glued with epoxy off without destroying the rod?  (Bill Freiman)

You can if you use 5 minute epoxy. 5 minute epoxy softens at a much lower temp. then slow cure epoxy.  (Marty DeSapio)

Directed heat from a heat gun will work, as long as you make sure you don't burn the wood of the reel seat.  (Mark Wendt)

That would then be someone else's problem. I'll be very dead wont care. On the bright side, enough people will be interested in the restoration of these rods that they'll start their own Listserv so as to exchange ideas, rambling meanderings, completely off-topic posts, and general mirth and mayhem. Imagine all the ill will, all the camaraderie and cajoling that will ensue. We will have done them a service by making our rods as difficult to restore as is possible.

I've found that repeated heating/cooling cycles work better than just an application of too much heat.  (Martin-Darrell)

I have a couple of uplocking reel seats to put together and was wondering what types of glues people use to attach the threaded metal barrel to the wooden filler.  (Callum Ross)

Glues for reel seats U40 Rod Bond. Clean things thoroughly with denatured alcohol, then scuff completely the surfaces with an ultra-fine Scotch-Brite pad, so that there are no shiny spots left. DO NOT wipe off any residue from the sanding. DO NOT clean again with any solvent. Apply the Rod Bond, and you'll play hell ever   getting   things   apart  again  --  even  with  heat.  (Martin-Darrell)

The advice that you received on glue is solid, but before you install uplocking reel seats, you might consider my recent experience.  I used an uplocking reel seat on an eight-foot six weight with a modified Dickerson 8014 taper.  (The modification was to make it a three piece rod.)  I like to have my rods "balance" somewhere near the top or front of the cork handle.  By this I mean that if I use my finger as a fulcrum, the rod, reel, and line combination will balance on my finger or the center of gravity of the total assembly is near the front of the handle.  With the REI uplocking reel seat that I used, the reel was located about an inch and a quarter further up the rod than my normal downlocking seats which completely changed the balance of the rod.  The balance point is several inches above the handle and feels heavy to my hand.  My reel is just too light.  I toyed with the idea of adding a weight to my reel, but experiments showed too much weight would be required.

My point is that seemingly small changes (like using an uplocking instead of a downlocking reel seat) can result in unexpected subjective differences.  You might want to experiment by taping the handle in place before final gluing.  (John Sabina)

I use 5 minute epoxy. It is plenty strong enough to hold on a reel seat, and if you ever want to get it off, a couple heating and cooling cycles and the epoxy lets go. I know at the time you put it on you think you will never need to take it off, but you never know....

I don't use 5 minute epoxy for ferrules.  (Darryl Hayashida)

I would not recommend 5 minute epoxy for gluing on a NS end cap in a cap/sliding band setup, had a failure with my only try.  (Ed Riddle)

Out of the 100 or so caps glued with 5 minute epoxy I have only had 1 failure. Pretty good odds. If you pin, no failures. Main thing is to clean the inside of the cap with solvent prior to gluing.  (Marty DeSapio)

I don't remember seeing any discussion about the best glues for attaching butt caps to the reel seat, especially when using a down sliding ring setup. Also how many of you pin them? Any special tricks for flattening the pin heads without dinging the butt cap?  (Larry Puckett)

I don't pin, I get a close fit of the cap to the filler, rough both surfaces, and glue with slow-setting epoxy. Try to keep the glue out of the pocket or you may have to fish with the reel in your coat pocket.  (Steve Weiss)

I am building a spey rod for my own use and I am worried the weight of this rod may be too much to cast all day for a week at a time.  I am buying a nice reel seat and cork grip and would like to use an adhesive that would allow disassembly.  My first thought is hide glue?  Does anyone have opinions on this?  Is their a better choice of adhesive?  I have read the threads on hide glue and I fear it may be impossible to get this adhesive to release without destroying the cork?  (Bob McElvain)

You may have a problem getting the cork off in one piece, but you can get another grip.  It's a lot stronger than you may first think when this sets up. The way we get it apart in the furniture trade is to steam it open. Have you made the rod hollow built?  (Gary Nicholson)

I would suggest that rather than try to make the rod  disposable, you build it as nicely as you can. If you don't like it,  you should certainly be able to sell it for more than the price of  the components, and that way, you won't have to spend the time it  would take to disassemble it.

It's hard to say if the rod will be comfortable for you to cast, some  of that depends on the rod, and some of it has to do with technique.  It's possible to beat the snot out of yourself with any two hander,  and it's also possible to fish them with minimal effort. If you have  chosen a good taper, and balance it properly, there's a good chance   you will be OK.  (Tom Smithwick)

Hide glue is pretty strong stuff, and has been around for centuries. (think Stradivarius)  It is very susceptible to moisture. I haven't witnessed it, but imagine a bunch of classical musicians bolting for cover at the first raindrop.  I wouldn't consider it for cork. 

I'm not sure of your application, but if you are thinking about an arbor for the reel seat, I would personally use cork rings glued individually to the sections, and turned down to fit the interior of the reel seat snugly.  I suppose you could space them, but the weight of cork in such small diameters is about nil. I've only held a spey once, and to my mind, the perceived weight of the handle was inconsequential in my opinion.  (Leonard Baker)

I just had 2 DL reel seat butt caps pop off of 2 two yr old rods. The reel seat hardware is Strubel aluminum DL1 and the butt cap was glued on using U40 Rod Bond. I am thinking I should reglue them using 5 Min epoxy and wondered if anyone has used this to attach an aluminum reel seat butt cap?  (JW Healy)

I have. Mine hasn't fallen off, yet, that is.  (Timothy Troester)

You will get a much stronger bond out of 15 or 30-minute epoxy. Thoroughly clean up the mating surfaces from any old glue. Scuff, scratch or lightly score both mating surfaces to provide a little bite due to increased surface area. Degrease them very well with acetone or alcohol. That should make the foundation for a long lasting bond. You can pin as well if you want to be 100% sure it stays put.The reason for the longer setting epoxies is that 5-minute epoxy tends to be more brittle and doesn't hold up well to extreme cold temperatures or the shock of a butt cap being banged around on the ground or on stream bottoms. Rod Bond should actually work well for this application. But if you are looking for something different I would also recommend Golf Smith shaft epoxy.  (Scott Bearden)

Years ago I tested a few different epoxies and glues for butt caps and settled on JB Weld from the corner hardware store. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive)

If you're going to use 5-minute epoxy, use the Devcon Brand.  It seems to have much less problem with brittleness than most quick set epoxies.For what it's worth, I pin all my reel seats after gluing.... (Harry Boyd)

I'm not a fan of any 5 minute epoxies I've tried except to build 'epoxy ramps' instead of winding checks ... I had cap pop off my sons 10-year-old sage and have been using JB Kwik ... nasty color glue but never had one pop off and it's available at Walmart. (Ron Hossack)

Although I am amazed at how well Devcon 5-minute epoxy works for bonding reel seats (tip from Mr. Boyd).  Epoxy bonding aluminum takes special precautions.  The boat building group “The Gougen Brothers” (or West System Epoxy) have a special etching kit that uses acid then some other good to ensure that the metal is clean and the surface oxidation is removed.  The problem with aluminum is that oxidation starts immediately when the metal is scratched, the oxidation will impact the bond.  Instead of using the etching kit I’ve done the following with good results. 

• Clean and rough up the metal, like normal.
• Apply a thin coat of unfilled epoxy to the inside of the metal.   
• Wearing latex gloves using a piece of wet/dry sandpaper and scuff up the internal metal using the epoxy as a lubricant. 

What happens is the epoxy prevents oxygen from contacting the scuffed up metal, preventing oxidation and its negative impact on the bond.  I’ve used this method to bond aluminum in some very difficult service. (Ray Taylor)

The late Patrick Coffey was not hesitant to tell all who would hear that the aircraft manufacturer Boeing (for whom he worked) used Dawn dish washing detergent as its primary de-greasing agent. If it was good enough for rocket science (actually just jet engines) it's good enough for me. Chemical solvents like acetone and alcohol will dissolve contaminants, but these same contaminants frequently get left behind when the solvent evaporates. Dawn washes the crap away. De-greasing, or the lack thereof, is probably the number one cause of adhesive failure. (Chris Obuchowski)

What little I know about all this stuff is what I have learned from others and from my own mistakes.  It has been too many years since my chemistry class to remember much from that. Some of what I learned is hearsay but generally what I do now seems to work.

When cleaning ferrules, I use Q tips and acetone until the Q tip comes out absolutely clean then repeat this a couple of times with alcohol.  I really don't remember where I heard acetone leaves a residue but because I paid attention to the info, I suspect it was from a decent source.  The same goes for alcohol leaving no residue - can't remember the source.

The worst epoxy I have ever used is Flex Coat 5 minute...no offense to their fine thread coatings.  For ferrules, I now use Golf shafting epoxy and have had no failures.  I figure if it can keep the head on a golf club thru the swing and impact stresses of hitting a golf ball, it is good enough for me.  For reel seats I use Loctite 5-minute epoxy and have had no failures.  I had two reel seats come off with the Flex Coat 5 minute; it became very brittle and flaky after 1 or 2 years and had the same problem with ferrules.  After reading some of the postings about the 5 minute epoxies not being so durable, I may switch to the slower set Loctite for reel seats.

When I used the medical syringes for the flex coat, it did not cure very much and there were little "volcanoes" scattered around the wraps which prompted my call to the Flex Coat company. I now only use the Flex Coat syringes and store them between uses in separate zip- lock bags.  Another thing I learned the hard way.  Have been using the same syringes for years.

By the way, the Flex Coat thread wrap is not an epoxy; it is a two-part polymer and dries somewhat flexible and does not seem to crack except at high stress points but it does not flake off.  I hope this answers a few questions. (John Long)

Thanks, John, that about answers it all. I shall start to use a finish cleanse with ethanol.

I really liked your comment about not knowing who told you but "because I paid attention to the info I suspect it must have been from a decent source". I have a few little gems that have proved to be true that are unknown source material, and my reaction is pretty much the same!

These little discussions do serve to dredge up long-forgotten information - when cleaning glassware in the lab at school, we used chromic acid as well. Why the devil do you suppose we did that? Since I had forgotten it, I deduce that I didn't think much of the source; which, considering my opinion of my high school chemistry teacher, would be absolutely spot on!  (Peter McKean)

As the 5-minute, 30-minute epoxies, etc., by Devcon, and others, are also polymers, the fact that Flex Coat is a polymer does not exclude it from being an epoxy. It is just one of many polymers known as "epoxies", or more technically, polyepoxides; so named for the epoxide functional group found in all. (Frank Schlicht)

I stopped using all 5-minute epoxy for reel-seats etc. I have had too many failures with it. (Bret Reiter (7/21/2016))

Same here quit using it when I was building Graphite rods. (Tony Spezio)

I read somewhere that the 5 min formulation reacts with copper while it's still liquid and the bond is never complete as a result. Is this true or hearsay? I don't know but it made sense because it doesn't seem to work too well on rod hardware. (Tony Young)

I am getting ready to finish up another bamboo rod.  If you guys do not use 5 minute epoxy for the real seat, what do you guys use here in the States. (Lew Boyko)

I use Gorilla glue on my reel seat spacer. For the metal pieces associated with the wooden reel seat I use 3M Scotch-Weld DP125 translucent epoxy adhesive. This includes the reel seat cap, decorative band, uplock/downlock assy, cork check and winding check. I use Bohning Ferr-L-Tite for the tip top. (Don Smith)

U40 Rod Bond.  Thixotropic epoxy designed specifically for mounting rod hardware.  Does not react to copper as Tony mentioned previously.  Been using it for over 15 years, and the only time anything came apart when I was not trying to take it apart was a butt cap that I forgot to clean all the oils out of prior to mounting it. (Mark Wendt)

+2 on the U-40 Rod Bond for reel seat parts.  Rod glue is Epon. (Paul Julius)