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Just finished cleaning the glue off my next rod (I'm up to #9 now), a Para 15, and instead of putting on a coat of tung oil as I have been doing, I thought I'd try Danish Oil. Home Depot didn't have any, but did have Teak Oil. When I read the can labels about it being good for very dense woods, and that it cured IN the surface, not ON the surface, it seemed like the right way to go. So, I bought a can and tried it. Looks very nice and was easy to use. Gave the blank a very nice luster and I really like the look. I'll still likely varnish later, and the can indicated that shouldn't be a problem. Wondering if others have had an equally satisfactory experience with it, or maybe warnings of yet to be discovered problems, I searched the archive for other references but didn't find much. So, any you folks have any "heads up" warnings of imminent problems varnishing, or perhaps experience with using only the Teak Oil as a rod finish? Would it be durable in the long term? The can also indicate it was for indoor or outdoor use, so it would seem to be OK. I'm not sure of what it is made up from other than the can indicated it contained mineral oil. (Ralph MacKenzie) I used to give a coat of boiled linseed oil to bamboo rods and only changed about 5 years ago to tung oil. I had no problems with linseed oil as an undercoat, so I don't see where this would be any problem. (Bret Reiter) I have two wood chairs on my deck that I stripped and then refinished with Teak Oil. They've spent two summers baking in the central Texas sun and they still look good. When I refinished those chairs I left some Teak Oil in the bottom of a container to dry out and it dried really darn hard. I was really impressed by how hard that dried residual Teak Oil became and the fact that it's supposed to go into the wood (like you mentioned). So I used Teak Oil as a first coat on a rod that I made two years ago. I followed the teak oil with 4 coats of varnish. It looks fine so far, but that doesn't speak to long-term viability of Teak Oil only approach. At least the Teak Oil and varnish were compatible. (Eric Koehler)
I have done a search for the use of Danish Oil for finishing and not come up with much. Jon McAnulty refers to it as being great when used on a paddle but I cannot find any reference to it being used on a rod. I am trying to postpone, for the moment, investment in further paraphernalia such as a dipping tank and am curious as to whether Danish oil has been successfully used or not. Unfortunately I cannot find a source for Tru-Oil (which would appear to be a possible solution) and am a little wary of using Tung oil without a varnish final coat. Does anyone have any advice on the use of Danish oil. (Stephen Dugmore) There is an oil finish called "Deks Olje", which is used for boats. It comes in 2 kinds, #1 is for initial sealing and is not glossy at all, #2 is a glossy finish. Don't know if you'd be able to find a source in your country, but I think it would be worth a try if you can. Naturally, get the smallest amount you can, a little seems to go a long way. It may be the finish referred to. I used it on my bowsprit some years ago, and it worked quite well there. (Neil Savage) Watco makes a product called "Teak Oil Finish" that I found in a local hardware store. The English lettering says that it seals and protects dense woods , but the Spanish version "penetra las maderas densas" means penetrates dense woods. So far I've used it on a real seat and it works well, I think it should work well on bamboo, though haven't tried it. (Henry Mitchell) Tru-Oil is not hard to find. It is to be found in the gun section of most sporting goods stores. I tried Danish oil once, but was not impressed. (Ralph Moon) I used it on my last rod as the first coat. However, I followed it up with a varnish covering so I can't comment on its use as a sole finish. The result I obtained with it this way was very good. No complaints. (Jon McAnulty) Thanks for all the replies - already! 'Gunshop' was the vital clue. Unfortunately there is no Walmart where I live (Cape Town, South Africa), but I have managed to find a gun shop which stocks Tru-Oil. Will abandon Danish oil as an idea and read/re-read the current thread on Tru-Oil with renewed interest. (Stephen Dugmore)
Has anyone ever tried teak oil as a finish? I looked over the past posts on the Classic forum but didn't really find anything of value; I understand it's pretty decent for over hardwoods (made some great reel seats this past summer) and to this relatively inexperienced woodworker, it's intuitive that it should be fine over cane. However, I defer to experience over ambition when it comes to possibly ruining my fall project with one bad choice. I have plenty of the stuff, it would be nice if it works... (Nate Gubbins) Partly, it depends on what you mean by “teak oil.” There are a dozen rub-on products available in big-box and hardware stores, but few (if any) of these finishes contain actual teak oil. This is not to say they aren’t good products, only that they really aren’t teak oil. Apparently, their descriptions only mean that application and appearance are “similar to” teak oil. On the other hand, pure teak oil can be found online in two forms. One is often called “China,” “raw,” or “pure” teak oil, and it’s a thin product meant to be used either as an additive to oil-based paints and varnishes (to enhance flexibility), or rubbed directly into the wood. The latter requires many coats and it dries very slowly, but produces a beautiful glow. Allow a couple days between coats, wait a few weeks for hardening and more than a couple months for a deeper cure. The time for full cure depends on humidity, temperature, air circulation, and how many coats you’ve rubbed, but it always runs into months. The second form of “pure” teak oil may not be quite a pure as the former, and is called “polymerized” teak oil. This description means that the polymerization process has been initiated in its manufacture. This is done either by using certain other resin additives and/or driers, or it may be done through a specific heating and cooling regimen. The product is somewhat less viscous, and when rubbed on, it dries much more quickly. As always, several thin coats are required--waiting a day between, and allowing a week to harden. Full cure may still be a matter of several weeks. All the above may produce a beautiful finish (technique is key), but none of them is especially hard and durable. Typically, teak oil products are meant for hand-rubbed furniture projects, and while most are excellent products, they can’t compare in durability to any of our oil-based or polyurethane varnishes. One notable exception is “Tru Oil,” which has been used by professionals on gun stocks for decades (but Tru Oil is not actually a tung oil). As to cane rods, the off-the-shelf “teak-oil” products are all easy to apply in thin coats, and when worn or damaged, you simply rub on a couple additional coats. No fuss. So, in the end, you only need to ask yourself what kind of “durability” you want or need on a cane rod. The “pure” tung-oil forms (mentioned above) take much, much longer to dry, and without resin additives, the pure stuff may be a little too soft for a cane rod. The ordinary shelf-products may be better for this, even though they’re not actually tung oil. We talk about protecting the surface, but “protect” in what way...? Scuffs, scrapes and hook damage are inevitable regardless of the finishing product, so this isn’t really what we mean. It’s mainly a matter of possible water damage. But, as long as the skin in intact, water itself won’t penetrate any varnish or “tung oil” product, while water vapor (humidity) always WILL. In this, nothing protects better than a couple coats of polyurethane, while rubbed coats of teak oil fall rather farther down the chart. The issue here has to do with the rate of absorption and release of humidity, but this kind of protection is a very tough thing for us rod-makers to estimate. The final skin thickness may be as relevant as the product used, but the thicker the skin, the more useless weight we add. Maybe, in the end, the best advice is to use whichever product gives you the ease-of-application and appearance you prefer, then simply dry your rods well after use, and store them in a low-humidity environment. Finally, it’s worth noting that Tim Anderson has always finished his rods with Gorilla Glue. Yep, that’s right. He applies several micro-coats or the ordinary stuff (it’s a polyurethane, remember) with a tiny cotton patch. He rubs each, thin coat over a 6 to 8-inch area until it can’t be moved around any longer, then moves down the section to the adjacent area. When complete, he waits maybe 10-15 minutes and applies another coat. Every 3-4 coats get a fine sanding or steel wool, and then 3-4 more coats. Total build-up is anything between 10-15 coats, though the occasional sanding reduces the overall thickness. It’s still a rubbed-in finish, but it builds to a beautiful sheen. Complete, gorgeous, cured finish in less than a day. What could be better...? Hope this helps. It’s a never-ending conversation. (Bill Harms) I think the descriptions you give below are for "Tung Oil" rather than for "Teak Oil." You seem to use the terms interchangeably, and they are not the same thing. "Teak oil" is just commercially thinned tung oil. Teak oil has lower solid content than ordinary tung oil and will penetrate quicker and leave little on the wood surface… I think the term comes from the companies selling oils to rejuvenate sun bleached teak trimming on a boat… Mostly, it’s a marketing term and may have more than just tung oil in its ingredients… then there is also "Danish oil” and some has linseed oil as the main ingredient… (Jimmy Chang) Hmm, seems that is correct. My apologies to Bill, and to anyone I may have confused. (Harry Boyd) Yes, I did use the terms interchangeably, and should not have. “Teak oil” is merely a generic term, and, as Jimmy Chang pointed out, these products are often a thinned and resin-fortified version of tung oil. So, teak oil could mean almost anything. They’re usually good finishes, but the term itself indicates nothing about the ingredients. I guess I just assumed that Nathan’s interest would have been in the tung oil portion, since, otherwise, the products all perform about the same. Deks Olje in another whole issue, and nobody seems to know what in it—except that it’s great. It smells like licorice, molasses and leather, and no one knows why. (Bill Harms) I went from dipping and draining my rods to impregnating them with Deks Olje which is a penetrating oil finish for marine purposes. I absolutely love the look of the silky finish with the glossy wraps on the guides. I like the durability and the fact that I can just buff out lightest scratches. I dip the rod sections in the oil for about 7-10 days then hang them in my drying cabinet for another week or so and buff the sections with carnuba wax in a wheel. The work you have to do is fairly minimal and I feel the payoff is great. As u said, just my 2 cents. Hope all are doing well. (Phil Crangi) Ever try applying the D2 gloss overcoat? (Larry Puckett) As a woodworker I can agree with Bill Harms when he implies that the subject of finishing materials and techniques is a never ending topic of ‘conversation’. “Fine Woodworking” magazine seems to publish articles on the subject on a recurring and regular basis, which is a direct indication of reader interest, and a general lack of common opinion or agreement, on the subject. I’ve used nearly every product on the market at one time or another and, like every other woodworker and rod builder, I’ve developed my own personal opinions and preferences. One of my opinions is that there is generally a trade-off between durability and what I’ll call maintainability. For example, polyurethane coatings are generally more durable than varnishes (especially for exterior uses) but they can be nearly impossible to maintain (if they become yellowed or cracked, which is all too common, there isn’t really much you can do other than remove the old polyurethane finish down to bare wood and start all over again, a real chore). Oils continue that trend, they are less durable than varnish but they are very easy to maintain and repair, just a little light sanding with a couple of new wiped-on coats, a little rubbing and you’re good to go. And with an oil finish you can address just the worn or damaged area and blend it easily with the original. One of my primary objections to polyurethane, and some varnish, coatings is that they tend to present a noticeable synthetic barrier between me and the wood. This is especially true for high gloss finishes. Oils, on the other hand, tend to become part of the wood and present me with a very pleasant touch, feel, and look that allows me to have more direct contact with the wood – an aesthetic thing that may or may not be important to anyone else. After a lot of trial and error I’ve developed a technique that allows me to use polyurethane and get a result that I find pleasing, but I still prefer the touch, feel, and look of a well executed oil finish. I think there’s a reason shy most high-end gun stocks have hand-rubbed oil finishes. When I started building bamboo fly rods, a short four years ago, I built a dip tank with the normal associated motor and pulley system to slowly extract the rod. It worked but, to me, the rod looked coated, and it lost a lot of its natural, ‘organic’ appeal. These comments, of course, are all personal and may not mean much to anyone else. But the reason I make my own rods is so I can have a rod that looks and feels the way I want it to look and feel. Fly fishing, to me, is primarily and aesthetic thing and a personally fashioned bamboo rod is an important element in that aesthetic. But I digress. My preferred solution to the rod finishing problem is to use Deks Olje D1 and D2 (I spent the better part of a recent Saturday wandering all over Seattle looking for the stuff – ordering it online was expensive due to the shipping costs. When I asked the guys at the Wooden Boat Center on Lake Union where I could get it they said they didn’t use it anymore because they couldn’t get it to dry and it just turned into a sticky mess – I think that’s a technique problem, not a product problem). I have converted my varnish dip tank into a ‘soak tank’ full of D1. I soak the blank in the D1 (tip section for 3 days, butt section for 4 days) and then hang it to dry at 90 degF for 2 or 3 days. After the blank is dry I rub it out with little more than a rag and elbow grease. I may use a bit of 1200 grit wet-or-dry to deal with a blem here or there but that is rare. A little rubbing gives me a nice semi-gloss sheen that looks, at least to me, like it’s a natural characteristic of the bamboo. A couple of coats of D2 with a bit of hand rubbing gives me a nice ‘gloss’ that is less than the mirror-like finish that can be obtained with high-gloss varnish but makes the blank look properly finished. Any oil finish needs to be maintained, there’s no question about that. But varnish finishes all need to be ‘fed’ once in a while too, nothing is totally maintenance free. I find that a very light coat of D2 that is allowed to dry/cure for a couple of days and then rubbed out is more than adequate. I do this at the beginning of the season and again at the end before I put my rods into ‘storage’. I find that this process is actually resulting in a gradual improvement in the look of my rods (again, this is a very personal opinion and the tastes of others will probably vary). Just one person’s opinion that others may, or may not, find useful. (Bryan Coles) I'm curious about the method you use. I have two questions:
Yep, like Ron, I read your very informative post with deep interest. I'm a woods guy too, although not professionally and found your input really interesting. A product I've not used as yet.
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